more insomnia, restless legs and decreased appetitie Thiis shit, Im good for a few days and then another symptom hits you. Im strill ghettinhg chills, swaeating badly in bed when I do sleep. i thought I was done with the creepycrawl, but Im not, which explains me insomniaits like going to the dentist 4 sep. I hate laying there and tossing and turning. This how long that its taking to Leave my body..
Have you ever taken ambien? It should help out a lot with the insomnia. But then again its another drug you might have to contend with. Stay strong as they say "this too shall pass"
ambien Hey MK. Thanks for stopping by. Ive been using ambien off n on for a few years. I enjoy taking a couple ambien with a couple of benadryl. Its a lovely little concoction i call a "goofball". Aside from that, ambien seems to make me sleepwalk and do some strange shit. None of which i ever have any memory of. Its an interesting med and Ive talked to other people and many of them have similar experience. At the moment I have ambien immediate release as well as xtended release. If there is a pill or pharmaceutical that can be abused. Its prolly in my medicine cabinet. Psychiatrists will write u a script for damn near anythinh u ask em for. Thanks for the suggesytion. Im just tryin to stick to xanax. It does a good enuff job.
Hey Scotty! More insomnia, huh? That blows, man... Is the xanax helping at all? I have that and ambien, too, but i very rarely take the xanax. Usually only when i have an anxiety attack, but the ambien like every other night or so. i have to take something for sleep, or else i just don't sleep at all. Have you ever tried just takin one ambien??? It works really well in small doses, too.... you should try it. i'd rather have not enough in my system than too much, you know what i mean? How else are things goin? Better, or more tolerable, i hope? Just checkin in, hon! Peace -LM
I Fucked Up Last night I got by with a lil help from my "friends". No excuses. I slipped n fell. Pick myself up. Dust myself off. And proceed with the withdrawal process. I should know by now to never say "never".
I did not read this entire post, nor did I read anyone's replies. I saw dopesick, and suboxone. I have been there, do the suboxone the way they tell you. Do it exactly right, no exceptions, and you will finally be free. I currently have been clean for quite some time. I even grow White Persian/Giganteum Opium poppies and harvest the opium, and here's the best part I don't even smoke it. I really have no desire to even start down that road again. I might do some H if I go to amsterdam, but I'll leave it there. Once you've hurt bad enough, and lost enough of your life (even though losing 2-4 years is nothing compared to some who have lost 20+), some addicts truely can be ALL around their D.O.C. and not do it. I despise the withdrawls so bad I don't even WANT to do it. Do the Suboxone correctly DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT even try to convince yourself that subutex is a better route, you'll just be to yourself. You need that naloxone to keep you honest. - WiZ
Subs Hey there Wiz. Thanks for stopping by. I've been off of the Subs for about 2 weeks now. Whenever I started this thread, that's how long I've been off the Subs. My Sub doctor gave me a plan for tapering down. But instead, I just chipped until I finally got myself down to 4mg. After stablizing on the 4mg per day, I sorta just crash landed off 4mg/day. Nobody here where I now reside prescribes Suboxone. So this became a good time to finally make the jump off of them. When I say "I fucked up" last night, it wasn't Suboxone. It was something else.
From one who still bears the mental and physical scars... Scotty mate,i know every little fuckin leg cramp and restless nights sleeps your going through man,i was a heroin addict from my teens into my mid twenties.I tried,tried and tried again to kick it,first did the whole methadone gig,actually i first tried lefexidine and dehydracodiene(like vicodin) for detox but it was too mild for my addiction(i was doin' easily a gram or two a day IV) but i was on 90ml of methadone for what seemed like a lifetime then i signed into hospital when subutex(suboxone without the 0.2 naltrexone) came on the scene and i detoxed from the high dose of meth onto 14mg subutex a day and after many moons and a few relapses i transferred onto the suboxone at 8mg per day,im now opiate free as i approach my 31st birthday on monday coming. Its a hard task but dont be too hard on yourself once you have a false start cos many times i did the same and its so easy to give up thinking you have failed but every addict has a few false starts before getting clean.Your posts evoke so many memories for me man and im right behind ya.Many people in real life cant sympathise or empathise cos they think its self inflicted as it indeed is but thats besides the point,most addicts usually get into drugs like heroin to block shit out consciously or sub consciously,its a safety blanket in a way,that warm glow that envelopes your mind and body though,as you know is not a rescue from problems,it is THEE problem but you'll already know all this. Stick with it man,iv been clean from heroin several years now and now im looking to go to college next term to start a course to enable me to become a drug worker with the local addiction centre,i feel after attending there for the best part of a decade that im well qualified to become one of them,lol. The best advice i can give you is to break your circle of aquaintances cos unless you do that you will never be free of the drug cos it will always be near you and no addict can be near it 24/7 and not succumb to it sooner or later.2nd thing is to try and keep active,this keeps your mind occupied but more importantly if you can go to the gym you wont notice the sweats as much cos you'll be sweating anyways plus more importantly the endorphins you create through hitting the gym can easily make up for all the endorphins created artificailly by opiates,get the dolpamine and endorphins pumping and you wont feel it as much,trust me i relapsed several times and it was going to gym while in prison that finally helped me kick the habit man. I feel your pain,the aches and horrible restless feeling you get in your legs is what i hated the worst,i used to strap a belt round my legs to stop them jumping,thats how bad it got,it stops you sleeping and lack of sleep is thee worst part cos thats what makes you relapse cos you sit there feeling so shitty and as soon as dawn breaks and you have some cash in your wallet you think "fuck it,a bag will help me get the head down and i'll start again tomorrow",this is normal classic detox behaviour ,your mind is in a constant conlifct with your body,the mental verus the physical,it is maybe one of if not thee hardest thing you'll ever do in your life but once your 6 months clean you'll start feeling NORMAL again... I gotta tell you though,after you come of the suboxone dont expect things to return to normal too soon,remember that for a long time you have been feeding your brain fake endorphins and for a while your brain will crave them,this goes on for months after your clean and causes severe anxiety,so much so that i ended up with a severe valium/benzodiazipine addiction which i only recently conquered.Your sleep will tAKe months to return to pre-opiaTe levels and you will most likely suffer severe depression too,i ended up diagnosed bi-polar for my troubles,then i was re-diagnosed with drug psycosis now im just diagnosed NORMAL,lol,the quacks dont know shit,well not the ones who dealt with me,lol,this is a battle only YOU can fight,its all in your head and its a lonely road to recovery,you feel as if no-one can know what your going through but me and a few other GK-ers i know,we have all been through it.Here in scotland Heroin seems to be a way of life nowadays but some of us do get clean and move onto bettter things as im sure you will. Listen anytime you wanna chat about anything,hit me up here or on yahoo(apprentice.glasgow@yahoo.co.uk ) cos i know how lonely it can be and its a one day at a time kinda battle which at times can seem as if its eternal and you start thinking whats the point so do what i did and right down all the bad points about your life right now and about opiate addiction,then right down all the goals and hopes you have for the future aswell as the good points about being clean and use this for motivation.When i first heard of things like this and going to the gym and one on one counselling i was skeptical and thoght it was all gimmicks created by drug workers to keep themselves in a job type shit but now im clean i can totally see their purposes and benefits.Theres a LOT more id like to share with you now and at further stages in your progress but i'll save it for if you need it and if you do just remember there are people here who not only sympathise but EMPATHISE too and keep your chin up.Oh by the way,i dont wanna put you on a downer but i found weed,while good for coming of valiu,etc,it is actually TERRIBLE for some people to use when detoxing,i actually found that it AMPLIFIED a LOT of my withdrawal symptoms so ponder that thought cos the weed could be making a bad situation worse,best to give it a miss at least for the frst week or two of detox in some cases but you may be the exeption. The suboxone lulls you into a false sense of security cos while its great for coming of heroin,it is actually just as hard if not harder to detox from so you gotta realise that your actually doing the same cold turkey as most heroin addicts do.I have taken every opiate there is from purple morphine MST tablets to oxy-contin capsules,you name it ,and the subutex/suboxone is every bit as hard to come of as heroin or methadone.I dont wanna scare you too much cos you seem to be in a good place and doing real well but just remember to take it a day at a time,one day clean is like a year in detox terms,your doing good,dont let the setback get to you.You have did the hardest part already which is getting the help and then giving up the help,just to make that decision alone is so hard and is to be applauded cos i know so many people who are long term meth or suboxone users purely cos they are happy to keep getting a free fix from the NHS each day,they have no intention of getting clean,so it takes balls of steel and a strong mentality to even give up the security of a long term prescription in the 1st place.Like i said,feel free to come chat to me day or night about it man cos there aint NUTHIN i aint been through when it comes to opiate addiction,i look back now and sometimes wonder if or how i used to smack my bitch up(IV the gear) to the tunes of pink floyd comfortably numb or velvet underground HEROIN,sounds weird but thats what i used to do and i used to laugh about it cos i had no respect for my body and no concept of my mortality,these are things you very quickly become reaquainted with when you get clean.I am nothing like the guy i used to be and people would never believe i was an addict nowadays when they see me stroll past in the park with my 2yr old son who i care for as a single parent,my drug worker calls me her inspiration,personally i just think i grew the fuck up and wanted summit better out of life than waking up in the jail on a possession with intent charge.STAY STRONG SCOTTY!All the best man PS: Take long hot baths before bedtime to induce tiredness and sleep,try putting like radox salts in it and if like me your open to new ideas then acupuncture and aromatherapy helps believe it or not,hell i even tried hypnosis
Thanks and Apologies LM, to disappoint ya. But I was so miserable that I had to have SOMETHING. What sucks is that I've only been here a lil over 1 month and I already have an oxy hook-up. Inadvertent as it may seem, junkies have a sort of fucked up kinship and we always seem to recognize each other. I should have known this was coming. Apprentice, all I can say is "Thank you." I was going quite mad, I went to pick up a sack cuz my crops aint ready for flowering, much less harvest. Of course the dude who has sacks of trees also has oxy or whatever else one may need. He didn't even have to mention it. He saw how sick I still am and I just said "Can you get me a couple?" The money changed hands just like it always does and 20min later I was hoovering up the 2 oxys like the fiend I always have been. God DAMMIT! Sometimes I don't think I'll ever be able to stop. Bro, I'm happy to not have to explain myself to you b/c ya been there. You reminded me of some things that were foremost in my mind when I started this kick. I'll prolly hit ya up on email cuz I know talking to somebody who has successfully kicked will help. "Hey Scott...Smile, you fuck!"
Build yourself a "detox kit".... Aye man its a rough transition,like i said dont down yourself cos sometimes you NEED a few false starts to get you warmed up,that might sound weird to most people but you will know where im coming from.Like i says,main thing is you have made the BIG decision which is to get clean,it dont matter whether you were forced of your script or whatever,main thing is its in your head to roll with it.I dare say you might slip on an opiate banana the odd time still but your life will soon dictate to you that you cant do it forever,there comes a point in every addicts life where they reach a crossroads and its up to them whether they get clean or spend the rest of their life clucking like a battery hen as we say in Glasgow.... Either way its fuckin hard and i hope you stay the course.I got booted of my script a good few times and my detox's never worked out but eventually once id burned all my bridges with family and REAL friends plus racked up some jail time,i ended up getting sick of the daily grind and got clean.I was lucky i was a "street pharmacist" back then so it meant i didnt have to go on the rob like many friends did,even still it wasnt nice to walk through my community and have everyone staring and thinking "there goes the scum bastard that sells my son drugs",i mean you do become immune to all that makes you human eventually but every now and then its like some sort of window to the soul opens up and you get a guilt trip and a reality check,this is the best time to get clean when your not seeing things through a drug induced haze... If your habit is anything like mines was,a few oxy's wont even take the monkey of yer back,it just holds back the tide a little bit till you get PROPER sorted.The best thing you can try and do,IF YOU AINT UP TO STRAIGHT OUT COLD TURKEY,is to build up a small amount of valium and sleepers and if it suits,a bit of weed and just go for it.For the head&bodyaches try buy an over the counter painkiller like paramol that contains small quantities of de-hydrocodeine.Its not enough to give you a habit but it is enough to make your "rattle" bearable along with the benzo's and sleepers.Im rooting for ya all the way,no matter how long it takes and i know of at least 3 other GKers who have been through the same thing so ppl DO understand it aint as simple as just doin a detox,its one step forward and two steps back at times.Theres a huge difference in wanting to get clean and actually getting clean as you will know.All the best scotty:icon_thumleft:
you said it all right there brother. It's not like snorting those oxys last night me anywhere near high. I just took the pain away for a while while I sleep and recharge my batteries for the next couple weeks. At this point, I'd be happy to step down from Subs to 5mg Vics, and then step down from 5mg Vics. Sub w/drawal is like going to the dentist 4 separate times to have each wisdom tooth pulled instead of having all 4 of them yanked at the same time. Lets not forget that Buprinex (forerunner of Subutex) is what got Steven Adler kicked out of G n R. He was trying to get clean off of the horse, so he went to a doc for some Buprinex. He got a shot of it while he was still high on heroin, which precipitated immediate and long term w/drawal so bad that he was too sick to do the studio recording sessions for the Use Your Illusion albums. I dont have any valium, but I got xanax which is a pretty respectable benzo in its own right.
I hear ya... Aye xanax was summit i used to order online,they came in little blue and red(if memory serves) capsules in boxes of 30 at a time,they do the job,they help relieve the anxiety and insomnia,to put it bluntly they take the "edge" of the "rattle"... When i did my detox in hospital from methadone to subutex i had to have a 48hr transitional period and they gave me naltrexone which is what they put in them new implants nowadays,well a form of it at least,i didnt know that if id used gear in the 7 days prior i would be ill and fuck me i was sick as anything,good job i was in hospital TBH... Your right,sometimes a full blown detox is too much too soon,iv seen many a good man fall by the wayside cos he wasnt ready for the full blown withdrawals without any kind of "crutch" so try not to feel too bad bout takin some "mothers little helpers" or the oxy's,etc.As John Lennon said..."WHATEVER GETS YOU THROUGH THE NIGHT"...try not to listen to his "cold turkey" song while doing it though,lol,iv made that error,it just keeps the agony in the forefront of your mind. Try doing some push ups(as crazy as that actually sounds,lol) before bed to get them endorphins flowing cos when all is said and done,its ALL about them pesky fuckin endorphins scotty,if you can give them a boost your way man.Many a night iv sat online feeling the way you do,it aint nice...or pretty.I fuckin hate it when you start wrenching for no reason other than cos your simply thinking too much about the situation,i sooooo sympathise with ya dude,TOTALLY!Peace
Hey Scotty! I'm not mad, just bummed for ya, man, that's all. I know it's probably the roughest road you've travelled thus far, and i don't recommend anything done cold turkey... just tryin to be there for another opiate addict who needs support. And thank you AP for chiming in here too. Sounds like you too have not had an easy go of it, but are blessed to be in the current position you are now! Way to go dude, you make me proud!!! Keep your chin up, Scotty! We're here if you need us! Peace -LM
The Gym Thanks LM. And Thanks to The Apprentice. I have figured out how to titrate my seroquel and xanax so that I'll be sleepy at, like, midnight instead of 4:00am. I was just taking my meds and then going to bed, couldnt sleep, and that's when I had to take handfuls to get to sleep before dawn. Then I'd wake up with a massive pill-hangover from taking so much seroquel and xanax at once. Now I start taking the xanax earlier in the evening and I break up the seroquel and take it piece by piece until I'm ready for bed w/out restless legs by about midnight. I went to the gym today. Although I slept last night, I went to the gym today with the express intent on working my legs to death. I started out and my quads were burning a little and I was like "Oh. Excuse me. Am I bothering you two? You fuckers wanna move around all crazy, we'll move around right here!" I did set after set for legs until they couldn't hold me up anymore. Then I moved on. I also told my body "You wanna sweat, we'll sweat right here." As long as I'm dictating how we feel and when, I'm winning this. From now on, every time I feel a w/drawal symptom, I'm going to the gym and killing it. It's so strange how when I've reached a certain point in opiate withdrawal where I just don't give a fuck about the way my body feels anymore. Obviously I've got no problem abusing my body, what with having had a drug induced heart-attack at 27y/o and all. It's like I get used to feeling a certain way, and I may not like it, but I accept it and I get tired of my body bitching all the time about how it feels. I say to my body- "I aint trying to hear you right now, body. We are neither medically ill nor injured.....move your ass." Maybe it's working. I've felt good all day. Maybe I'm about to crawl out of this hole. I'm down to the point where 1000mg Ibuprofen takes care of any headaches or aches in general.
way to go man... Good shit Scotty,the gym will help you produce enough endorphins to at least make you happier,get them dolpamine and endorphin juices flowing man; The good thing bout the gym is that once you get clean you will also have a new healthy habit that will keep you active and away from the horse and it will give the confidence a boost,stop the depression and shit,its got so many uses.Glad you decided to give it a go.LOL,i was laughing my ass of at you talkin to your legs and shit,lol,that evokes similar memories,lol.I went through a fase of threatning to get them amputated if they didnt stop jerking around during the night and shit,lol.Make sure they know whos the boss and shitPeace Scotty
th gym Dude, I was in there to kill my legs. I was legitimately pissed off. I told 'em before I left the house. I said "You motherfuckers are DEAD. Im running this shit now. My way...get the fuck out of it! You whiny little girls are lucky I can't do squats (old neck injury). You're getting off LIGHT!" Fortunately, I was in good shape when all this opiate crap started. Im still in decent shape, but I've been out of the weight room for about 2 months what witht he move and the accute phase of the withdrawal and all. I've been in and out of different gyms since 1993. What sucks about having some musculature is that they contract and spasm that much more during creepy-crawl and restless legs. When I was on opiates, my work-outs were great. When my muscles would normally start burning, 'bout to reach failure, the oxys always kept me from the whole "no pain, no gain thing". So I was able to actually lift heavier weights with more reps than if I wasn't on oxys. Even during withdrawal from opiates, it's still much harder to wear me out in the gym. I think it's b/c I'm already in so much discomfort, that by the time I hit the gym, I'm already past that first sluggish 5-10min of getting the work-out started. I'm going back today. It's not just cuz of the w/drawal, I've been going to the gym for about 16 years. I know that exercise the best to get your own brain back to making its own endorphins for your opioid receptors. I swear my legs told my brain "Hey fucker you better start making that endorphin shit cuz he aint putting it in any more!" I hate the idea of separating the body from the mind, but in this case, it's so much of a mind fuck that I kinda have to make that separation so I can get my brain back to being my own. Then I can regain SOME management of the situation.
full of grief, i scream at the wind goddamn. I went over to my connect's house to buy a sack. he was all out of herbs. But he had Vics and Oxys. It was so fucking tempting to just buy the pills just so I can feel more human for a few days, but I didnt even raise the issue. Now that I've been back home for a few hours and thought about it, I'm both pissed at myself for not buying the pills, and happy with myself for not buying. typical junkie ambivalence. fuck. I notice this thread has been lurked quite a bit. For lurkers who are wondering about this shit....don't ever get involved with it b/c when you can still come off of it, you don't want to. By the time you want to come off of dope, you will have a helluva time getting away from it and getting it OUT of and AWAY from you. If you're on dope, dont try any fucking suboxone or methadone. Those will both be physically more difficult to withdraw from than whatever dope youre using now. You wanna kick, cold turkey is really the only way I can see out of it.
You have made me proud, Scotty! I'm glad you didn't give in to tempation and buy more pills. And the gym sounds like a great idea for restless leg syndrome, as well as the creepy-crawlies! Way to go, dude! Stay strong, my friend! -LM
Thanks, LM. I think enough of the Suboxone is out of my system that I'm done with the acute symptoms. Now I just generally don't "feel good" and my brain feels hazy and kinda slow.
