Veg lighting options

Whats the cheapest and coolest way to get the fastest growth vegging a 2X4 table? Is is a 1000 MH or can I get near the same growth with a 4' 8 bulb T5 array?


The reason I want to avoid the HID is the heat and the need for a cooled hood and big fan in a small space. Also the power consumption of a 1000w MH plus fan, and the extra work of ducting, etc. is what i am worried about. I've gotten great veg growth out of floros before.


Shy of the HID heat. This table is going in a TIGHT 3X5 closet. Without great ducting and a big fan I cannot run a 1000w MH in there.

 

I've seen a couple of people using floro's around here. Black Prince did a CFL grow when he first showed up. what about L.E.D's.? those are supposed to the next big thing

 

GiT that's too expensive for me. If I could get LED for veg at close to the same price as comparable HID or floro I'd do it based on Skunky's grow.

 

Plants love T5s in veg. Also the PAR38 flood lights in 5000K(daylight) would work pretty well. Been using just one of those for this grow to maintain the clones I was trying to establish into moms. They are like $20-30 a pop though. I would think 8-12 would give you plenty of light and more than cover that area. If you did 8 that would be 136W. Though HO T5s are pretty damn efficient, still a little hotter than LED. HO 54W tubes are about 90-100lm/w and a good store bought LED bulb replacement around 70-90lm/w. The Cree replacement bulbs they sell at home depot are pretty good but think the largest is a PAR30 9.5W flood that makes about 70 lm/w. The Standard A19 9.5W makes 84 lm/w. Main difference other than the diodes used are the reflectors attached on the BR30


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cree-65W-Equivalent-Daylight-5000K-BR30-Dimmable-LED-Flood-Light-Bulb-BBR30-06550FLF-12DE26-1U110/204366183


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cree-60W-Equivalent-Daylight-5000K-A19-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-6-Pack-BA19-08050OMF-12DE26-2U100/204084368


Stay away from toshiba. Only other company I'd consider for those type of bulbs is philips or some of the sylvanias.


So 12 of those either standard or BR30 flood would be 114W. Standard: 9600lm Flood: 7800lm. Standard: $160/12 Flood: couple bucks cheaper.


So unless you are just wanting to try LED still would be cheaper to do T5 with 54W high output tubes.


Only way to really get 100lm/w or over with LED are either DIY or buying a panel. T5 will probably be the best and least expensive route.

 

I'd probably veg under t5s.


If you want faster growth than that though they make dual 175w MH setups (350w total) for aquariums. The smaller bulbs put out a lot more heat for the lumens but I've seen them outperform T5s side by side.

 

Right on guys. Thanks for the responses.


Ordered 8 bulb 4' T5 arrays.

 

I veg my 2x2 tables under a 400 CMH and a 400 MH 1 for each, from a 4inch rooted clone in an EZ cloner to a 10inch tall TOPPED plant takes about 2 weeks, then its moved into the tables from there


I keep my moms under a 4bulb T5 high output setup, 2 bulbs of each type, works great, almost too good...I threw away 15-20 clones of each, Bubba,Rhino and Dabney last night when I had to thin out the tops


T5's should be good tho

 

CC, that t5 "high output setup" is it the bulbs or ballast/fixture that makes it high output? i'm fixin to research the cmh, that sounds cool

 

Bulbs, they are 54W instead of 20 something.

 

I think the H.O. bulbs are like $5-8bux


and the CMH bulbs are badass, they just came out with the 600w version and I think the 1k is on the way soon from what ive read

 

I just use the T8 32 watt bulbs in the shop light fixtures and mine do fine. I'm sure the other more expensive ones will grow faster. But I'm never in a hurry because they usually have to sit for a while till a spot opens up in one of the flower rooms. I have a 400w MH I use during colder weather for heat as much as anything.


Be Cool, CG

 

Yeah HO bulbs aren't expensive. Can get them from many places for cheap like 1000bulbs.com CMH are pretty bad ass. Great CRI compared to normal HID. Good intensity. Though those also aren't so cheap either. Though not ridiculous. Would be interested to see what the 600 and 1K would run for a CMH. But I could've swore I saw an 860 CMH.


CC, just because we've been talking about it little by little. From what I'm seeing with some of the guys I've been following closely CMH and LED are currently about somewhat equal. A 330W CMH will cost about the same as a an LED that should perform just as well. Though I will say that's observing others and I can't personally atest to that so I'm still a tiny bit skeptical as well because I've used CMH and it knocks the dust off an HPS comparing a 330 to a 400. Better results with less input. Same as what I'm seeing with some of these LED grows now. There is a guy I think I posted some pics or links to some of his grows, greengenes. He is about to flip the switch on one month old plants. 1K vs AT600 apache tech light. I'm more interested to see how that goes. Once it really gets going I may document it over on here a little too just for the hell of it. Shit any info is good info.


There ya go... CDM is pretty much the same thing as CMH as I understand it. http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.com/l/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/ceramic-metal-halide/energy-advantage-cdm-lamps-with-allstart-technology/928601174701_na/

 

Monochromatic LEDs just are more of a hassle in my opinion. It's like diet to some extent or hell even just sun exposure with people. People respond different and so do plants. So one plant might grow great under monochromes and another may grow like crap. That was my thinking with the full spectrum LEDS as opposed to trying and mixing and matching different ratios of different wavelengths. I'm not sure if it's quite 500W that would compare to the 1k but 600 or so sure does.


Though back to the topic at hand there are some great T5s available now that will grow great. I've personally never used a 600MH but I've used 400 and 1K and I'd rather use T5s with HO tubes. The standard T5s leave a great deal to be desired, then again they are under 1/2 the performance of an HO bulb.

 

Yeah LED options at this point are just priced off the map. I'm not even considering them. As for wavelength manipulation, over my head :thumbsup:


I have seen incredible growth with my own home made floro veg rig in the last setup I had, quite without trying too hard. Granted it was an RDWC setup, but the point is I know from firsthand experience that floros can grow. Now that I think about it, I will spend an hour at the box store tomorrow and price out my own rig.


Final thought - for me, heat output is more important than super-amazing-witchcraft growth rates because I can just take cuts a few weeks earlier or later if I need to get a plant to a certain height before flowering. :new_blackey:


Looks like the HO t5s are bout $5 a pop. There may be a DIY floro veg rig thread in my future :redbong:

 

Yeah, heat is "the" biggest concern for me too. I've got a 400w mh and will use it in the winter as much for a heat source as the output. Flows work fine for me cause I'm never rushing to get ready to flower.


The cats at the hydro shop were showing off the latest LED fixture they'd put up and were bragging on the high output (600w), low heat and power usage, veg and flower settings, and output level control. My eyes lit up and I could see it hanging at the house until he mentioned $1,000+:flipando:. Told him I'd have to think about it.


Be Cool, CG

 

Any idea what light it was? Sounds like a lumigrow.

 

Don't know, I went back to their web site to see if it was there but it hadn't been posted yet. I watched them open up a 3x5 tent they had it sealed in for over 4 hours with no vent. it was 72 on the floor,75 at 18" below the fixture and 80 at the very top. It was hard to believe but that's what the thermos said. But it may not have been running full blast.


Be Cool, CG

 

I just talked to them on the phone and it was a lumigrow. Said they had another 1k version coming at $1900. So I'll go get a couple lottery tickets and dream on.


Be Cool, CG