Got the computer back. sorry for the big pics. I see some post with small pics that say click to view larger image. cant figure that one out
I've been researching and am coming to the conclusion that its nitrogen def. it just don't make sense for it to be overwatering/feeding. i'm hoping that increasing to 20 gallons of solution will cure the problem
Yeah feed for a 20 gallon res, and add cal/mag. Nice pics plants look good overall Id say the yellow tippy tips and the few yellow fans are the result of too rapid a switch from veg nutes to flower nutes, which can be smoothed out by adding 40-60ml of cal/mag in week one and two.
Thanks FF, I'm gonna have to get some cal-mag, and some gallon jugs of nutes. wholly shit mixing 20gl of nutes put a big dent in that qt bottle. I've never needed any additives before. .... or maybe I did and didn't realize. Once I get through this harvest in few weeks there is gonna be allot of upgrades. I'm wanting to go back to botanicare pro that I started with. I like the organic aspect of it
If I were you I'd ph/ec your runoff. It looks to me like they're a bit overfertilized, but regardless checking the runoff is ALWAYS the first go-to diagnostic step for growing in hydro IMO. I used to do it every res change just for preventive purposes and to keep a good idea of how my girls were doing - how much they were drinking, how much nutes they needed week to week, etc. Its also a great learning tool for figuring out how other environmental factors are doing since almost everything that happens to plants will alter their water and nutrient uptake levels. It's basically testing the whole grow environment. That being said it kinda looks like N def but there are some other symptoms on other leaves too. Looks like a bit of... Potassium deficiency? And a few burned tips? Probably just from the switch to flowering and either constant high nute doses or Mg def. Pooling water can also cause precipitation pretty easily so that could have affected it. Were they my plants the first thing I'd do would be to reread the grower's bible's chapter on water. I don't keep that crap in my head because I can keep it on my desk. The best way to approach diagnostics through the bible is to first assume the deficiency/toxicity is due to some environmental stress. Most of these fert companies do pretty good jobs of making balanced, stable nute lines and it's rare for them to consistently cause deficiencies when they're used correctly... and that's even less common in hydro where the res has everything they need available. If you're maintaining the res properly it will almost never be a "nutrient deficiency" problem regardless of how it shows. And THAT'S why I HATE the bible - it trained a whole generation of growers to think in terms of nutrient deficiencies instead of environmental equilibrium. How do you change your res? Do you do 7-10 day changes with plain water topoffs throughout or do you just dump and replace every time it gets low? I use Cal-Mag with GH base lines. Both Flora and Floranova seem to be pretty light on mg especially. I used to use epsom salts instead when I was using ridiculously hard tap water and didn't want more Ca but I like the Cal-Mag better with normal tap or RO water.
Yeah, those qt/ltr size don't last long in hydro. Soil uses far less but it's in the payoff. Unless I'm just trying it out I get everything in at least gal jugs. And it's clear that tables use less nutes per plant than DWC. But like I said it's all in the payoff. A qtr oz more a plant for most of us will more than pay for the nutes. Be Cool, CG
Ssa I change the nutes every Thursday. I have never topped off the res. Just changed the nutes once a week. Usually in that period it loses about 3 of the 15 gallons. i checked the roots and they looked like shit. None of this happened with the last crop. Nothing has really changed between this and the last. They have perked up more since the res change though.
Huh. whats the water temp? Are the roots slimy yet or are they just brown? (pythium?) The standing water can cause rot to start after which it spreads though the table IME. Had a friend have a perpetual sog table with that problem (among a million others). I understand watering too frequently can help cause it too, as can heat, cold, and spitting wrong. Anything that can damage roots enough for a pathogen to take hold. 3 gallons for a 3x3 table over a week sounds really low. if you can check the EC or ppm next thursday it might be worth it - if not I'm thinkin they probably are going to be way out of whack. My guess from the other side of a computer screen is that dropping nute lvls might help - my uneducated theory is that damaged roots need less nutes. I think I heard somewhere that roots mostly take up nutrients through the small hair thingies which are the first thing to go in a rot situation. They take water through the bigger roots a lot better than they do nutes - thus, lower nute levels if you want em to keep drinking. As an aside, I love useless's formula but IMO it's a bit strong for some growing methods. I personally dilute it further when I use it in recirculating systems. Since I stopped posting regularly on here I've become a low fert convert in general for chemicals. Might also be good to start adding a cap full of medical grade hydrogen peroxide every res change (or like 2 drops of agricultural grade). It won't kill off the pythium but it might help with its growth and spread. Again, though, assume nothing I say is accurate and fact check for yourself. Usually a good idea whenever you get info from the internet. Also, does this method of diagnosing problems in hydro sound familiar to anyone? I know I got it from someone on this site in like 2008 and just practiced on my own since but I can't remember who got me to start thinking about hydro in general that way...
Res temp is about 75, no slime just brown with new white roots starting to grow. No ppm or ec meter yet, I was thinking about peroxide if it don't get better.
ah just toasted. probably a god idea to peroxide anyway. Any way to bring that res temp down? Shade it or something? 75 is WAY hot. Should be about 65 if memory serves.
Yep res too warm and you def should be using h202. The 3% stuff at the drug store is useless for our purposes. Get some 29% h202, and use 3ml per gallon, or 60 ml for a 20 gallon res. That is SOP in hydro. I add the H202 at every res change, which is weekly.
just checked the res temp with a digital therm. 72.3. so I reckon it's gotta be a bottle or 2 of frozen water at lights on everyday? man, i tell ya my rdwc bucket system was a pain changing the nutes but I never had issues like this with it. this fucking sux man! I built these tables pretty sturdy and don't want to rip them out and go back to buckets, but at this point im so frustrated, i'm thinking fuck the hydro, fill the tables with dirt and go from there Admin lynching
Hey GiT, take a deep breath buddy. My res temps get as high as 77 degrees but I never have had a problem. I do use h202 the 3%. I mix it 60 milliliters to 20 gallon res. I really think that makes the difference as far a healthy roots go. My timer waters every three hours for about 20 minutes then the nutes drain back into the res. I also agree that you have a cal/ mag deff. I had to use it when I switched to Ebb and Flow table growing. :bong-2:
Yup my res right now has been 75-80 and I still fought off root rot with 3% H2O2. Aeration is key. Even in tables I aerate the ever living shit out of the res. So if temps are an issue one thing that will help other than trying to chill the water is pumping more air in. I find while low res temps slow bacterial growth it also slows nutrient assimilation and growth rates a little. I like your res temp that's money in my eyes. I would suspect too much time between floods and dying out too much. Similar to what you see in dwc above the water line. The reduced moisture can cause those roots to turn brown and become more stem like. Hey mr. G are you using cannazyme at all?
I do not use cannazyme. I have not needed it yet. I really think the Hydrogen Peroxide makes the difference.
I thought the temp should be ok. I got air pumps and stones laying around not being used, i was told not to aerate the res. Picking up the peroxide on the way home today, I'll get some cal-mag tomorrow. Should I lose the net pots with hydroton and use the 4x4 rockwool cubes with panda film? Not sure if that would make a diff.
Yeah aerate it. Keeps your water oxygen rich so better for nutrient uptake. Also keeps your water from being stagnate and keeps nutes mixed well. Then it air cools the water a little. Not to mention the best part that heavily oxygenated water helps ward off pathogens since most of those thrive in warm wet micro aerophilic to anaerobic environments. As for containers and media up to you. But in my experience I always fed a little more frequently with hydroton or lava rocks vs rockwool. More of a do you want reusable or disposable.
The roots are looking better, all the dead brown roots are gone and they have about 3 inches of tan not brown and fresh white roots. H202 kicked the brown root issue in the ass. I gave them a 2 day flush with ph'd water and h202. just gave them the fresh week 4 ferts last night. I couldn't get the cal-mag this week.
some pics of the roots before the h2o2 after h2o2 this was only 3 days of treatment, all brown is gone.
