QUOTE Quote: from wawona on 3:03 pm on Mar. 22, 2005 all I have to say is that it's a private and personal business of the family. Government has no business in it. I agree totally. It's up to each individual family how they handle a situation like this.
Yes, I just want to flame this man for no particular reason. Im against allowing those who are suffering to be relieved of suffering. Im all for pain baby, bring on the pain baby! just call me the EVIL ONE:LOL: Fact: the guy wanted the plug pulled on Terry when she wasnt comatose and she was still 'very much' responding to her parents in a big way with smiles and laughs even responding to their voices with sounds of elation. I personally watched this. Fact: He didnt care that Terry was still responding to her parents(AT THE TIME) and that it meant something to the parents. He just wanted the plug pulled on a woman who wasnt completely brain dead and still showed strong emotion very much so. How do I know this? I watched it live and in color Fact: At that time the man was a greedy individual with no understanding whatsoever for the parents VALID stance...again this was nearly 10 years ago have a nice day
SD-"The point is RD what gives this son of a bitch the right to decide when these peoples daughter should die. I watched the mother and father of this woman sobbing to no end about this bastards heartless decision to go through with removing THEIR daughter from life support and the world despite their pleas and disapproval because she still responded to them. What kind of man is that?" When you marry someone parents cease to have any rights. If my wife dies everything she has gets left to me unless otherwise stated by her. I became the perso who mkaes the decisions for her when she is incapacitated. If she needs emergency surgey I would be the one to sign the papers on whether the doctors have permission or not. And if my wife expresses to me that she would not want to have to live as a vegetable for decades then I would exert my whole life force towards that end. Even to the point of killing her myself.
Well Ranger, I can only say from other cases like her's there have been several, (I don't know how many) have recovered from their coma state's as far as several different types.....so when I said Countless, I meant I coun't count how many but knew of at least a few. I've heard of three across the country that I can remember, and one right here where I live just a few years ago a woman was in a brain dead veg state for 17 years and came out of it and slowly worked her happy ass right out of the hospital. (Of course this took months of rebilatition) and several times the doctors tried to tell the family to pull the plug because she was brain dead and also the family had spent all their money and didn't have the money to keep her alive....but the family got the money...mind you this was another young woman... I saw several augure ments on what exactly state Teri is in and there are several top notch people who have been picked on both sides who will tell you different views. I've never heard that She ever said let me die if this ever happens to me, unless it is just the husbans side? As far as the brain scans..........I saw hers and they don't look good I agree she is not with us as of now....could she be later? I wish I could show you my brain scans and tell you what the doctors told me......and exactly what was done to me and the extent of my brain dammage/ coma's/veg state that I remember to this day comming out of, it is like waking up from the dead and I'm serious as hell, I came out of the coma only to choke on the breathing tube they had me on..but by the grace of God and my will to fight strong as hell I pulled thru, so I know personaly what could happen, maybe it is a little aggresion on my part to want to see her live...no one but God knows what will happen when your brain goes dead and you are kept alive on machines, or other wise. But for the most part people never pull thru. I'm sure you loved your mother and I don't know what the situation was with her...how old ect.....and I agree that sometimes you have no choice to let go and I would not say if you had to have plug pulled you commited murder, that was a harsh statment on my part about letting people to just let lay and starve/dehydrate to death.......it is just one of the worse ways to die IMO........I feel like if someone can't feed them selves, do the right thing and help them. (Edited by Justcheckingitout at 10:19 am on Mar. 23, 2005)
tragec case (Edited by TrailorGrowir at 11:28 am on Mar. 23, 2005) (Edited by TrailorGrowir at 11:30 am on Mar. 23, 2005)
JCIO, Terri brain had liquified. It won't re-generate. I doubt that, in any stste, a person who has been in a Permanent Vegatative State for 17 years and whose brain had liquified suddenly "snapped out of it". It's like saying a guy who had his eyes surgically suddenly sprouted new eyes and now sees normally. To say Terri is NOT PVS is denying medical science, and btw who do you visit when you are sick? If a dozen Dr'.s gave you numerous tests/examinations and reached a diagnosis. you wouldn't trust them? Do you think all the doctors who have examined Terri have girlfriends or have some other ulterior motive? Mr. Schiavo should be commended for fighting for so long to see his wife's wishes carried out.
JCIO, Terri's brain has liquified. It won't re-generate. I doubt that, a person who has been in a Permanent Vegatative State for 17 years and whose brain had liquified suddenly "snapped out of it". It's like saying a guy who had his eyes surgically suddenly sprouted new eyes and now sees normally. To say Terri is NOT PVS is denying medical science, and btw who do you visit when you are sick? Do you think all the doctors who have examined Terri have girlfriends or have some other ulterior motive? Mr. Schiavo should be commended for fighting for so long to see his wife's wishes are carried out.
RD listen no hard feelings honestly we just witnessed a side of the man that wasnt so pretty or pleasant is all. With that I will end this rant but not before saying good points made by all. Captivating thread Sativa, ty
So very very sadly, Mrs. Schiavo's parents are now petitioning the U.S. supreme court to overturn every other court's decisions.
Funny though, how all those God-fearing pro-lifers are so pro-death penalty. Mercy for a mentally ill or retarded convicted murderer? As if!
I had originally planned to avoid this thread like the plague...however, I feel a need to contribute to this ongoing going nowhere debate over a person's right to die. I have always felt that one can measure one's happiness and health by the quantity and quality of life one is able to experience...if one's ability to have a quality and full life are compromised by an unexpected health issue...and it renders this person unable to make that decision for themselves...you have a very delicate situation...and certainly one size fits all does not apply to this scenario... I feel it is most important for each individual to take full responsibility for one's living will...make sure you have all the t's crossed and the i's dotted...cuz' this is the protocol that should be followed once one is unable to fend for or make decisions for ones self. Back to my quality of life stance...really when you seriously stop and think about it...wasn't Terry's quality of life severely compromised and diminished upon slipping into a comatose state...and even before she completely slipped into a comatose state...just how impressive was her quality of life...I don't know much about this case...but from what I have read and heard...her quality of life had definitely been shortchanged...and if you ask me...what kind of existence is that...or how worthwhile is it for a family to prolong life when quality of life is so diminshed for the one unable to make that decision for one's self...if you ask me...I would say it is for "selfish" reasons that we try to hold on to our loved ones...we don't see it that way when they are still alive although we realize their suffering...we as the survivors have a tough time coping with the reality that will come with the absence of this family member...so we hold on like there is no tommorrow, only in my mind satisfying the selfish need we humans have to hold on to things we don't want to lose...so in short...the husband is making the right call here...the parents, God bless them...but they need to let their daughter go, it won't be easy...I didn't say it would...but they can not continue down this road of keeping their daughter alive so that they will not have to cope with that void in their life, that is selfishness tendencies at work...however, as the Big Media reports they fight on to keep her compromised quality of life afloat...and personally I feel that is just wrong...and politicians oughta keep their damn noses out of our private affairs...don't they got a war to fight anyways...stupid politicians...always meddling...**** 'em...Chad(Hangin'...that is) And I didn't even get to my quantity stance...I think you all get my drift... (Edited by Dazechain at dinnertime on March of Dimes Day, 2005) (Edited by Professor ChumLeaf at 1:00 pm on Mar. 23, 2005) (Edited by Professor ChumLeaf at 1:02 pm on Mar. 23, 2005)
Of course it's a very complicated issue with many different people's feelings involved, including the question of what Terri would have wanted. Then also there is the husband's involvement with the other woman coloring our perception-- would we judge him as harshly if he had lived a celibate life all these years? There really isn't any right or wrong, only what we would do, and that's the family's problem. I think it's none of the government's business, or ours, to say, but I do find it ironic that the legal question is whether or not to replace her feeding tube when her vegetative state was brought about originally by her own decision not to eat.
Well at least we made it through this thread still friends. I know there was no legal documentation that she did not wish to be kept alive by machines in the event of something like this, but how many of you have discussed this with your spouse? I know my wife,and I have discussed this, even before the Shiavo story was all over the news. How many of you have done the same? Also did you document it? I do not doubt that at some point in their relatinship they did discuus this issue, and most likely she did say to pull the plug.
QUOTE Quote: from rangerdanger on 8:05 am on Mar. 23, 2005 JCIO, Terri brain had liquified. It won't re-generate. I doubt that, in any stste, a person who has been in a Permanent Vegatative State for 17 years and whose brain had liquified suddenly "snapped out of it". It's like saying a guy who had his eyes surgically suddenly sprouted new eyes and now sees normally. To say Terri is NOT PVS is denying medical science, and btw who do you visit when you are sick? If a dozen Dr'.s gave you numerous tests/examinations and reached a diagnosis. you wouldn't trust them? Do you think all the doctors who have examined Terri have girlfriends or have some other ulterior motive? Mr. Schiavo should be commended for fighting for so long to see his wife's wishes carried out. Ranger has made the point I wanted to.. There is spinal fluid where the Brain should be. I doubt that makes for a possible recovery. I mean folks why not let the shell of a life pass on?
Like I said...I see all the points made (and respect them) but the bottom line is that there is NO documentation to what she would have wanted. Honestly I do think it is so sad that she is in the state she is in....it breaks my heart to see her parents crying and sobbing on TV for them NOT to pull the plug on her feeding tube and to put it back in. I do think it is a tragedy that she has to starve to death now & like I stated before, we treat animals and people on death row more humane. And no this isn't a pro-life or religious statement...it is only a humane one if anything. In fact I think it is disgusting how the goverment is using this to their political advantage. I only say this out of concern for her family who borought her into this world only to see her go like this...real nice isn't it? Pull the feeding tube on her....yah that is how we all would love to die. OK maybe she doesnt feel the suffering of the starvation....but unless one has went thru it and came back to life...I can only ask how do we know if they do feel pain?? How can a doctor be 100 percent sure there is no feeling or that she has absolutely no senses? She twitches and has some activity or her limbs would not move but maybe I am wrong...all I know is how do they know for sure. Especially when others have come back from being dead or from a coma....I think lethal injection would be a MORE humane way to end all of this if this is the only solution. This way the parents know she went in peacefully in her sleep and it isnt a long dragged out process of just waiting for her "empty life" body to pass on. I know by law they can't but maybe this is something that should be addressed & considered for the future in a case such as this one. I know as a mother...well I could not bare to see my daughter starve and die like this even if they told me 1000 times she has no feeling and she will go in peace...nope I would prolly be as grief stricken as they are & fight it till I was ready or thought there was no other way. They are her parents...of course one would be in denial...they love her. Also this isnt your typical life support such as a respirator...this is only a feeding tube and she has remained alive for all these years. Now all of a sudden the feeding tube has to be pulled...??? Why? If he loved her and her parents and was a man.....why can't he just be considerate of their feelings? Yes she may be brain dead to where she will never ever come back and it sure looks like that....my only beef with it all, is why does she have to starve & it end in this matter? We all say this isn't quality life (and no i would not want to be kept alive that way either) but it sure as hell isnt a nice way to die is it? Just my 2 cents I am glad I have a living will....I made mine a few years back when I had my lil one. I think everyone should have one and maybe people will run out after seeing this painful situation of her family and get one. My prayers go to her and her family....
I just read that the politicians aren't done dishonoring Terri's wishes yet. The latest stunt: jeb bush--president jr's kid brother/election fixer and gov. of Fla.--says he in going to petetion the courts to take custody of Terri.
what i want to know, why is this all over the news? the personal parties involved should have enough dignity for the persons soul to peacably decide what to do. Leave it up to the courts and she turns into table talk and national news? this is ridiculous, almost like its shoved in our faces to take minds off other realities around us. about her case, i mean lets be realistic. at this point they might as well freeze her and wait for science to catch up to her condition. The surgeries dont exist to repair the damage done. Even if she was repaired, i dont think that it'll be the same ol' terry they remember. not in the least. these people have turned it into a fight over money. and the other thing that makes me wonder about the political stunting going on here, pasting this situation all over the news, is that its happening in florida. Need i say more?
ive seen a lot of husband bashing in this thread for different reasons......well just the lil bit ive heard of him in this thread makes me hate him......falling in love with another woman while ur wife is in a coma, thats dispicable......me and my "girlfriend" have been together for almost 5 years and if she had an accident and was in a vegetative state for 50 years i would not leave her side no matter how long it took.......i don't even think i would move on without her if she died much less if she was still alive and in a coma
I think they should let her die. Why is it so important that one vegetable person lives, perfectly healthy people die everyday. Sitting around pondering this **** then BAM! your gone. So I am sorry but if I am ever like that pull the plug, or don't, not like it makes one ****. I am fucking gone already. I feel sorry for anyone who has to lose a loved one but go on fucking T.V. and cry about how your loved one is so much more important than 1000's of other peoples. The fact is she is dead, only medical science is keeping her alive at this point. Because of moral dilemma she can not be delt a deathblow but instead she fucking starves to death. Wheres Dr. Kevorkian now? Rotting in prison instead of the fucks who are letting her starve to death.
