Money spent on war

Discussion in 'Politics' started by nikidog, Oct 9, 2003.

  1. nikidog

    nikidog Germinated

    Forgive me fellow GK members but I must ponder

    it is costing us billions to "liberate" Iraq,

    unfortunatly our brothers sisters dads and moms are being killed everyday,

    more Americans were killed on 9/11 at one time than at any other time in US history,including Pearl Harbor,

    NO the problem is not political, it is IDIOLOGICAL,
    do we really think if we dont go on the offensive nobody will harm us, tell that to the familys of the 3000 dead people in NY,

    No the conservative movement is not a bunch of Hitler lovers, who is trying to commit genocide on the ISRAEL people, really,

    Do we think that if we stop all foreign affairs and stop protecting Israel our problems will go away?

    So we shouldnt spend any money on war as far as Im concerned but just for the record...........

    Whats your life worth

    I support our troops and understand that this "war" is way bigger then oil or wmd's its the time honored traditon of good versus evil, (those who forget the past are condemed to repeat it)


    Proud to be an American
    Bring our troops home soon
    Semper Fi
     
  2. llIndigoll

    llIndigoll Medical Grower

    Propaganda


    The elite


    National passivity


    McDonalds


    Chevron


    Marlbro


    ENRON


    S/L


    CIA


    Greed


    Power


    Forbes


    CNN


    Katharsis


    Jesus


    Arms


    Judgement


    War


    Blood


    AOL TIME WARNER


    Overpopulation


    Instant gratification


    Media


    Mass production


    FORD


    Corporate entity


    Short-sightedness


    *Music cued*


    "All of which are American dreams..."


    "All of which are American dreams..."


    "All of which are American dreams..."


    "All of which are American dreams..."
     
  3. MellowDood

    MellowDood weed eater

    well put llIndigoll...


    niki, try to look at this situation from an outside perspective. the u.s. government has murdered many people on many occasions for its own gain, making false claims that it was necessary for national security. when relatives of those murdered individuals try to fight back the government ignores the reason for their retaliation and eliminates those people as well. if they continue to treat these situations this way the retaliation will only escalate.


    remember to look at this situation as an outside party. you can't let your citizenship affect your moral reasoning. an fbi/cia agent murders an innocent person under false claims that said person is a terrorist. would that person's family not have a right to press charges against the agent? our government murders people in other countries yet tries to act like a humanitarian nation. if the rulers do not obey the rules then what's the point of rules?
     
  4. llIndigoll

    llIndigoll Medical Grower

    Rules without reasoning are tools for control.
     
  5. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    i guess if you dont buy into the american dream then you should maybe look at your alternatives, because this country was founded on christian principles the signers of the decleration of indepedence were chritians. the fundamentalist muslims have declared jihad a holy war on us "death to all americans" the reason we are at this point is irelevent, they desire our death, all of us, even you liberals they want dead, but you would have us sit back and wait for that death i say no.


    (Edited by ganja420 at 5:16 am on Oct. 9, 2003)
     
  6. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    well here is one guys take on the middle east from first hand experience.


    I traveled to Iran recently... We were in the back of a cab and Mr. Azarian and the driver were engaged in some light political conversation...


    Many of the people in the cabs in Tehran had the similar thoughts. "Tell George Bush to come and get rid of the mullahs for us." I was shocked by the openness of that statement. With one fellow I tried to discuss it with him in more detail to see if he really meant it or was just talking. I told him that if George Bush came and got rid of the Mullahs, it would not be to help the people of Iran; he would be coming for the oil. The fellow replied, "He can have the oil, its not doing us any good anyway and at least then we would be free." --Duncan Beatty
     
  7. llIndigoll

    llIndigoll Medical Grower

    Who are you addressing ganja420?


    I don't "buy" the American dream, you are correct. Do you even know what the American dream is? Do you know what the consequences of the American dream are? Do you know where the word "American" came from? Don't answer these questions, as they are intended to get you to learn the answers instead of piping out the words of your father's generation.


    This country was NOT founded on Christian principles, and the signers of the Decleration of Independence were NOT Christians. Get your facts straight before you "quote" history. The word you are searching for is Deists, not Christians. If you do not know the difference look the words up, then go back to 7th grade and relearn U.S. History.


    How "recently" were you in Iran?
     
  8. rangerdanger

    rangerdanger ***Rest in Peace***

    dog, where in the world did you get the idea that, because I am against senseless slaughter that I am unpatriotic?


    By what leap of logic did you come to the conclusion that, because I don't want U.S. of Americans to die in the desert so jr. can steal stuff is unpatriotic?


    ganja420 says that all Arabs hate Americans (untrue). He also says why those who hate us do so doesn't matter. But that it PRECISELY what matters. Their opinions are based on what we in the past did, and what we are doing in the present. And they don't hate the people of the U.S., they hate the U.S. government.


    Yes dog, lots of people died during the events of 9/11, due to the actions of our gov't and our governments ignoring of the warnings. Indeed, many believe that the events of 9/11 involve action of our gov'ts part rather than inaction.


    And we killed over 15 times that many last year in Afganistan and 25 times that many in Iraq this year.


    All non-combatants, all civilians with husbands, wives, children and friends.


    If you want to talk about senseless slaughter, look at what our gov't did the the Native Americans bucko.
     
  9. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    slaughter


    She writes that she is “sorry that UNICEF has been dragged into the debate over my stupid and irresponsible mistake.. Geoff and UNICEF have been unfairly linked by Media Watch to my own stupid behaviour”.


    The above is from an apology written by Gina Wilkinson, an ABC reporter who filed a report from Iraq concerining children getting injured playing around abandoned munitions. Why the apology? Well, her copy for the filmed report sounded strikingly like UNICEF media releases, which should not surprise anyone seeing as how her husband is a UNICEF media officer. The shocking part is the bits of tape that were cut out to create the news segment...precious seconds in which she is seen asking the children through an interpreter to pose atop live missiles.


    If the last line of the following transcript doesn't make you want to eviscerate this piece of slime, I don't know what would.


    - You want to show the children on there?


    Gina Wilkinson: Yeah, that would be good. Yeah, if they don’t mind.


    - (trans) You want them to stand over there to be filmed?


    - (trans) Come on sweetie. What’s her name?


    - Noona


    - (trans) I'm worried about them.


    - Sit. Sit on this.


    - (trans) I'm worried about them.


    - (trans) Sit on the edge.


    Gina Wilkinson: Please God, don't let this thing explode now.


    - ABC Camera Tape


    What an appalling attempt at sensationalist reporting and a complete lack of regard for the lives of the children involved.


    I did manage to find another ABC.net.au link concerning this issue but other than quite a bit of buzz in the blogosphere, its seems that the "reputable" media considers this issue not newsworthy. They're like sharks hitting fresh chum when Bush or Arnold are being accused of something but let one of their own blatently violate any sense of ethics that may or may not exist among the media and they're dead silent.


    http://sensibleerection.com/go.php/entry/25425/url/http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s960880.htm


    thats the link see for yourself
     
  10. nikidog

    nikidog Germinated

    First of all I want to thank you fellow posters for not getting personal, I enjoy light political banter but I normally stay away from it because I seem to be frequently surrounded by anti-american, anarchist's, who really dont care or want to talk about history and politics at current face value,


    I dont want to paint myself in a corner, I have some (very few:)) liberal views and some (mostly) conservative,


    I just get frustrated when people bash the economy, government, foriegn affairs, our leaders, and so on,


    Its easy to sit back and critisize its another to DO something about it,


    If you know of a better form of government, tell me, maybe Ill vote for it,


    And Ill ask again...................


    Whats your life worth?
     
  11. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    iiindigol


    Founders Were NOT Deists


    Here we go again...yet another attempt at history revisionism


    Their first mistake was drawing the above conclusion based on the fact that the Declaration of Independence was “vague” in references to God. I don’t believe “Nature’s God, Creator, Supreme Judge of the Word, and Divine Providence” can possibly be considered vague. In addition, there is no other God than the God of the Bible that these words refer to. If they had done the research they implied they did, they could have examined the documents, quotes, diaries, and decisions, of the founders, framers, courts and contemporaries. Since all of the above adhere to our country’s Christian foundation and propagation of the gospel, they probably felt that it was unnecessary to make the document a Biblical quotation. A trip through their writings, however, make if VERY clear that our Nation was and should always be, a Christian nation.


    In fact, they derived our “three forms of government (Executive, Legislative & Judicial)” from Isaiah 33:22. In addition, they drew from Jeremiah 17 to implement the “Separation of Powers” and Ezra 7:24 to grant the church the tax exempt status [501©3]. According to the University of Houston, who collected 15,000 writings of the founding fathers (took 10 years), more than 34% of their quotes came right out of their Bibles and 60% came from authors who got their ideas from the Bible.


    Their second mistake was referencing the “Treaty of Tripoli”. In it (allegedly) Article 11 states that, “the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion...” Most researchers are now aware that this article is NOT found in the treaty at all. Charles Bevans, who wrote “Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of American 1776-1959” - The U.S. State Department said “ ‘.....not in any sense founded on the Christian religion’, does not exist at all. There is no Article 11. The Arabic text which is between Articles 10 and 12 is in form a letter crude and flamboyant and withal quite unimportant, from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli. How that script came to be written and to be regarded, as in the Barlow translation, as Article 11 of the treaty as there written, is a mystery and seemingly must remain so. Nothing in the diplomatic correspondence of the time throws any light whatever on the point.” The treaty, as originally written (1797), contains no such quote. Further, since piracy continued even WITH the treaty and America went to war with Tripoli in 1801, a second treaty was drafted (1806) and again...THAT original did not contain the false quote either.


    What was REALLY interesting, was that they CHOSE to omit quotes from treaties that DID reference our Christian heritage: American/Great Britain Peace Treaty (“In the name of the Most Holy and Indivisible Trinity”), among others.


    Their third mistake was stating that “Washington, Jefferson, Madison and Franklin could pass today for secular humanists.” They had to completely turn a blind eye to the thousands of quotes that came from these men to make a statement like that. Out of the 54 public declarations of denominational affiliations, only one claimed to be a Deist with no adherence to the Christian religion, and that was Franklin. He did, however, attend worship services and was a strong advocate of prayer and the assertion that God governed in the affairs of men.


    By today’s standards, in light on the “only on Sunday” standards of many Christians....these guys were saints!
     
  12. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    BRADFORD, WILLIAM:


    We whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our sovereign Lord, King James, by the grace of God, of Great Britain, France, & Ireland king, defender of the faith, etc., having undertaken for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our king & country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia. (1620 - Mayflower Compact)
     
  13. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    HAMILTON, ALEXANDER:


    In my opinion, the present consitution is the standard to which we are to cling. Under its banner bona fide must we combat our political foes, rejecting all changes but through the channel itself provided for amendments. By these general views of the subject have my reflections been guided. I now offer you the outline of the plan they have suggested. Let an association be formed to be denominated "The Christian Constitutional Society," its object to be first: The support of the Christian religion. second: The support of the United States. (1802 in a letter to James Bayard, explaining the bond between Christianity and Constitutional Freedom)
     
  14. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    HENRY, PATRICK:


    It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here. (1765)
     
  15. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    JEFFERSON, THOMAS:


    God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever. (1781 - Notes on the State of Virgina)


    My Views....are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, an very different from the anti-christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus Himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others...(1803 letter to Benjamin Rush)
     
  16. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    iindigol i know you wont admit you are wrong but i read up on your diest`s unfortinatley you are mistaken their was only one diest ben franklin do i need to post quote from all of the founding fathers?[​IMG]??? its to bad you have been fooled.
     
  17. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    MADISON, JAMES:


    We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions..... upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God. (1778)
     
  18. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    JAY, JOHN (First Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court):


    Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. (1816)
     
  19. ganja420

    ganja420 Begun Flowering

    geee i wonder who needs to get their facts straight now
     
  20. llIndigoll

    llIndigoll Medical Grower

    Hey ganja420, do you think you're the only one with a search engine? http://www.linda.net/no-deist.html


    If you are going to quote an entire letter to an editor at least document it. What is even worse than playing like you wrote that tripe is that you got it from here LMAO! I like the colorful fish. Are those your parents?


    History is written by those who conquer, and it is later edited by those in power. Do you really believe that the authors of the 4 gospels wrote verbatim? Do you truly believe it has been accurately translated for you? Are you as disillusioned as Rush Limbaugh wants you to be?


    Please continue to educate yourself, but beware of the falsities of the religious right.


    Now, back to the topic at hand:


    Money spent on war is what is keeping U.S. corporations, banks and elitists over the middle class. Without a war-time economy the wealthy would feel the current conditions we middle and lower class citizens are facing. War is being marketed.


    As per the value of human life, well look at what humans have done to the planet. I value human life as much as I value bacteria (we're symbiants you know) but I'm not the one making the sale;).
     

Share This Page