Let\'s See Where We Are So Far

Discussion in 'Politics' started by rangerdanger, Oct 12, 2003.

  1. rangerdanger

    rangerdanger ***Rest in Peace***

    -Thousands dead.
    -Billions already spent. Many billions more asked for, even though admin officials said (before the war) that Iraq would be able to pay it's own way from oil revenue's.
    -Growing discontent in the U.S. due to an invasion based on lies.
    -The U.S. mired in a seemingly never-ending war.
    -40--50 U.S. military casualities every week.
    -Growing resentment in Iraq regarding the U.S. army of occupation.
    -U.S. debt skyrocketing.
    -saddam still alive n kickin'.

    Add to this the violation of our civil right via the unPatriot Act, I can't believe that any sane person could support jr.
     
  2. Sweetleafer

    Sweetleafer Germinated

    In my recolection the present administration never said it was going to be quick or easy. It takes more than a few months to rebuild a nation. A nation that's infostructure was well into ruin before the war. I will admit that the comment about the revenues from their oil would pay for rebuilding Iraq, but was it ever said we wouldn't have to foot some of the costs? Not that I remember.
     
  3. rangerdanger

    rangerdanger ***Rest in Peace***

    And my other points?
     
  4. Sweetleafer

    Sweetleafer Germinated

    Never-ending war? Vietnam lasted from 1964 to 1975, Korea lasted from 1950 to 1953, WWII from 1941 to 1945, WWI from 1917 to 1919, I can't see how less than a year seems like never-ending.
     
  5. rangerdanger

    rangerdanger ***Rest in Peace***

    Because there's no end in sight.


    As long as we maintain an army of occupation, the casualties won't stop.


    Look at it this way. Imagine for a few moments that the U.S. was smaller and weaker.


    And we had a president that some people didnt like.


    So another country starves us (the U.S. sponsered embargo), causing 1.5 million (according to U.N. estimates) deaths from malnutrition and lack of medicine, the lies to the world about us, then invades, kills thousands of civilians and takes over the country.


    What do you think your opinion of the occuping army would be?


    It's like VietNam. The majority of the Vietnamese people didn't want us there. It was an unwinnable war. They wanted us to leave them alone. Like the Iraqi's, the Vietnamese had been invaded by many countries many times in their history. In Vietnam's case, the Chinese, the French and the U.S. in the last 100 years.


    The Iraqi's too have been fighting off invaders for thousands of years. The British, the Turks and the Persians in the last hundred years.


    And they will continue to do so.


    That's why I used the phrase "seemingly never-ending".
     
  6. Sweetleafer

    Sweetleafer Germinated

    So the thousands of Irag people cheering, tearing down statues of Saddam, praising the U.S. and other allies, one Irag gentleman chanting (while beating his chest) "I'm American, I'm American", the stories of former Iraq citizens on how horrible it was (females not being able to go to school, or work) or the demonstators on the streets of Dearborn, that doesn't show that they were happy to see Saddam lose his power?
     
  7. Sweetleafer

    Sweetleafer Germinated

    Also, on your accusing the U.S. on being the ones starving the Iraq citizens, if Saddam didn't have WMD's why didn't he let the UN inspectors in? He would have kept his power and saved his people a lot of suffering.
     
  8. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Veggy Stage

    Saddam most likely, and I say most likely because I can not be in the man's head. But the most likely scenario is that Saddam felt that by resisting inspection even though he had no WMD's was that this would bolster his standing within the Arab world. He was resisting the western world by not allowing inspections. When you think about this, it is a win win situation for him. Resist inspections even though you do not possess what they are so convinced you have. Also, this would falsely imply to the world that he did have these weapons, which he most likely believed would deter any of his neighboring countries and in his mind, the United States from attacking him. Like the political equivalent of a puff adder. Presenting all the signs of being venomous as a smokescreen.


    (Edited by Tyler Durden at 8:15 am on Oct. 12, 2003)
     
  9. rangerdanger

    rangerdanger ***Rest in Peace***

    sweetleafer, your confused.


    In Iraq, the most 'western' country in the middle east, women were afforded full rights, and many wore western clothes.


    You may be thinking of U.S. ally Kuwait, where women aren't allowed to drive or vote in that dictatorship.


    Yes, people were cheering and pulling down statue's just like I will be (the cheering part) when jr. leaves office.


    Look what happened when he let inspectors in.


    Dearborn?
     
  10. llIndigoll

    llIndigoll Medical Grower

  11. Sweetleafer

    Sweetleafer Germinated

    Dearborn, MI has one of the largest Arabic populations outside of the Middle east. When the U.S. started pushing Saddam led government and forces from Iraq a great many of those Arabic-Americans took to the streets of Dearborn. Not in protest, but with great cheer. They were happy that their friends and loved ones would no longer have to live under Saddam's rule.
     
  12. rangerdanger

    rangerdanger ***Rest in Peace***

    How did they feel about the 1.5 million of their countrymen who died as a result of the U.S.-led embargo on food and medicine?
     
  13. fishman

    fishman Cured Fat Sticky Bud

    i dont disagree ranger but if there were 40-50 casualtys a week we would have only been there 8 weeks tops.
     
  14. QuitinTarantincans

    QuitinTarantincans Developed Alternating Nodes

    QUOTE

    Quote: from Sweetleafer on 10:35 pm on Oct. 11, 2003
    In my recolection the present administration never said it was going to be quick or easy.

    That's not what they told the Iraqi people when they plane dropped leaflets over Baghdad last Spring asking for cooperation and promising improvements to living conditions within weeks.  If hostilities are mounting in Iraq, it's because of yet another broken Bush Administration promise.  (right there behind compassionate conservatism, Uniting not dividing, funding for education, balanced budgets, no state-building, funding for AIDS in Africa ...)
     
  15. Hulkamaniac

    Hulkamaniac New Sprout

    You know Ranger, all you do is bitch and complain about our involvement in Iraq. Some of you so called fact are clearly distorted or basically false. Where do you come up with this? From what sources do you use? BBC, ABC, CNN,?[​IMG]?


    You insist on bashing the president and our troops??WTF??


    And as for being in Iraq too long, I think we are still in Germany since WWII, let's see thats how many years?


    Do you work for Hillary Clinton or the DNC?[​IMG]??
     
  16. rangerdanger

    rangerdanger ***Rest in Peace***

    Where did I 'bash' our troops?


    I'm the guy who wants to bring them home safe and sound.


    I didn't want them to be there in the first place, remember?
     
  17. Hulkamaniac

    Hulkamaniac New Sprout

    I have yet to see one of your posts (cuz I’m new to GK) saying to bring the troops back. If you have please state it as much as your I hate Bush campaign.  Otherwise you imply that our troops and the president are one.


    “Growing discontent in the U.S. due to an invasion based on lies.


    -The U.S. mired in a seemingly never-ending war.


    -40--50 U.S. military casualties every week.


    -Growing resentment in Iraq regarding the U.S. army of occupation “


    The troops are fulfilling a contract with the US government; their oppositions are irrelevant. They can disagree but are held to a legal binding contract.


    Also:


    “How did they feel about the 1.5 million of their countrymen who died as a result of the U.S.-led embargo on food and medicine?”


    Are you for real? An embargo had nothing to do with their deaths, but a tyrannical leader whose paranoia ran in his head 24/7. I believe that death by way of a bullet to the back of the head is not due to “a result of the U.S.-led embargo on food and medicine.” Saddam stole billions from his country.  If anyone had any other opinion than his (real or imagined) were killed, just like Stalin did to 22 million of his countrymen.
     
  18. rangerdanger

    rangerdanger ***Rest in Peace***

    The embargo prevented food and medicine from reaching Iraq. 1.5 million people dies bevause of the embargo, which the U.S. backed and enforced.


    I have an Iraqi friend, and his sister in Iraq bagged for anti-biots to save her son.


    He sent some in the mail but the U.S. gov't refused to allow them thru.


    His nephew died.


    Now, what did the U.S. gain by having my friends 8-year old nephew die?


    How do you feel about the U.S. support of pinochet, if you want to talk about monsters. How the U.S. killed the legally-elected president (Allende) and put pinochet in power.


    Read up on another person we put into power and supported: the Shah.


    If you don't yet realize that I was (and still am) opposed of U.S. troops being in Iraq, you need to do some reading.
     
  19. Hulkamaniac

    Hulkamaniac New Sprout

    The 1.5 million people that you speak about were political prisoners, or are you talking of a different 1.5 million people  people in mass graves in the desert. If Saddam could stash a  3 billion bucks why would he starve his own people? Only because he didn't give a rats ass in the first place. He was a cold hearted dictator who could careless about anyone else other that his family or somebody who supported his ideas. HE IS SCUM!!!!!! Just try to tell anyone on GK that he was a good guy, if you do you will have lost any respect from anybody with a brain bigger than a peanut.


    Iam truly sorry to hear about your friends nephew, I'd be mad as ****. But Ranger I give you a big fat F for not realizing the fact that we don't live in a perfect society,no one does. The world can never make everyone happy at the same time. My grandfather died penniless in Cuba, 1962; after making himself a millionaire in the early 50's only to have his lifelong works effort stolen from him fromsome dickhead named Castro, who my father graduated from Belins academy in Havana.


    You preach the gospel of how wrong we are to be in Iraq, yet we are there to provide the  (take for granted) freedom  you have to bash the president without any price to pay. Shame on you!!!


    How old are you? Where have you been? Do you give a damn about this country? And above all you need to do some reading, how about picking up an American history book. By the way where do you come up with these facts on Iraq? Are they made up or are they from the DNC? They fall short on what both the liberal media and conservatives tell us. Bullshit will only get you deeper in trouble when challenged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  20. rangerdanger

    rangerdanger ***Rest in Peace***

    Time to educate another right-winger (sigh).


    I'll wager that most of not all you've heard about saddam you've heard via U.S. media suckling at the gov'ts teat for info.


    I don't know saddam. I sure as hell ain't gonna believe the current media or his daddy's word for it either (read my lips no new taxes).


    I saw several interviews with him on t.v. Seemed like a regular guy.


    I know how the gov't has to villify a person or country to rouse the rabble up. 55 years ago it was the murdering dark-faced huns and the sneaky buck-toothed japs. However, once the countries' leasders sighed some pieces of paper, these same people suddenly became ok.


    If the U.S. gov't thought he was so evil, why did we approve billions of dollars of loans to him though the 70's? Why did we sell him WMD? Why is there a photo of Rumsfeld shaking hands with saddam?


    I'll agree with you on one point. The 1.5 people who died from malnutrition and lack of medicine WERE political prisoners--of the U.S. They died because of us.


    I've never heard about 1.5 million bodies in a mass grave. Did you hear that from drug addict rush?


    Your dad made $ under the human rights abuser extrordnaire Bautista? Under whose rule Cuban's were starving to death? The guy who allowed the U.S. to use Cuba as it's whorehouse?


    Funny thing, no other country has a problem with Castro. What does that tell you?


    As I've stated before, I get my history from being around when some of it happened, history books, discussion groups, foriegn and domestic news sources both mainsteam and alternative.


    I base my opinions of gov't officials by their record. jr. said there were WMD in Iraq (in fact colin powell said he knew exactly where they were) and inferred that there was a saddam--9/11 link.


    Both lies.


    Bill lied too, but I also make allowances for the significance of the lies. jr's lies has caused many thousands of innocent civilians to die, the only thing that happened with Bill is a stain on Monica's dress.


    I don't see what my age or travel history has anything whatsoever to do with the validity of my posts. Why does it matter how old I am or what color my skin is or what political party I belong to?


    Facts is facts.
     

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