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  • Venus strain

    I have two Venus Females that look very nice. They are EXTREMELY stout/dense. Not only are the nodes really close together, but one of them has alternating sets of three leaves insted of two! Is this common, good, bad...what?
    I don't mow lawns but Im known to cut grass!
    Plus I appreciate all advice and good feedback!
    When it comes to questions, I'll always ask
    won't think of stopping till my girls are BIG n' BAD!

  • #2
    Originally posted by slantedsidewaze
    I have two Venus Females that look very nice. They are EXTREMELY stout/dense. Not only are the nodes really close together, but one of them has alternating sets of three leaves insted of two! Is this common, good, bad...what?
    Could be a whorled phytolaxy.. More likely a mutant.. u got any pics?
    Swimming into the great genetic pool of Cannabis

    'A Guerilla Army attacks where they aren't expected, secures victory, and then, vanishes without a trace'

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    • #3
      Yea sounds like it's whorled as long as its 3 sets of fan leaves per node and not just 3 fingered fan leaves.
      What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about?

      Oh and I found Jesus! He was hiding behind the sofa the whole time!

      OG breeding FAQs
      http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35076

      Strain Lineage List
      http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33084

      Chop the tree, smoke the tree!

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      • #4
        Whorled?

        Originally posted by skunky
        Yea sounds like it's whorled.
        What's whorled? It's three sets per node , not three fingered fan leaves.
        I don't mow lawns but Im known to cut grass!
        Plus I appreciate all advice and good feedback!
        When it comes to questions, I'll always ask
        won't think of stopping till my girls are BIG n' BAD!

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey, Dude!


          Be a big help to everyone, if possible.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'll see if I can find any good real whorled MJ pics but maybe this will help explain it to ya.
            http://fireflyforest.net/firefly/200...te-or-whorled/

            Alot of people call these polyploids, but pretty sure whorled phyllotaxy has nothing to do with ploidy level.
            What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about?

            Oh and I found Jesus! He was hiding behind the sofa the whole time!

            OG breeding FAQs
            http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35076

            Strain Lineage List
            http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33084

            Chop the tree, smoke the tree!

            Comment


            • #7
              I thought it's called a Trifoliate-Bud

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              • #8
                Nope, a lot of people think it's a triploid. It's not supposed to be caused by extra DNA copies just crazy expression. There is three arrangements seen in most plants. The opposite phyllotaxy which is the immature \|/ two at each node, the whorled/spiraled phyllotaxy with three at each node, and the alternate phyllotaxy we see normally in the mature plants.

                Honestly not sure how to tell a polyploid, master kush is supposed to be a tetraploid but not sure. I know you are supposed to be able to treat seeds with colchicine to induce it. Not sure if it really work or not and from what I've read really no benefit for us growers for polyploids onlything that seems to be better is the fiber but some say yield can be larger. I would think the cochicine would just make the seeds unviable. Because colchicine is what they use to karyotype stuff and look at chromosomes. You add it to cells and when they are under going mitosis and aligned at the metaphase plate it will freeze the cell. The technician just takes a picture of all the chromosomes then cuts them out and matches them up. I'm just not sure if it freezes the cells temporarily or if it completely inhibits the progression through the cell cycle.
                What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about?

                Oh and I found Jesus! He was hiding behind the sofa the whole time!

                OG breeding FAQs
                http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35076

                Strain Lineage List
                http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33084

                Chop the tree, smoke the tree!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Skunky there was a study conducted about what you are mentioning with the colchicine treatment on MJ seeds (dont remember where I saw it) but I believe it stated that out of 400 seeds treated only 4 survived said treatment. And thats when done correctly on previous attempts the researchers treated 400 seads and something like 200 were viable but they didnt turn out polyploids. I guess its a very fine line between success and failure.

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                  • #10
                    The picture skunky posted is whorled phyllotaxy. It is a tri-foliate whorled phylotaxy, so SomBud was also correct.

                    There is a good thread on here called Polyploidism in Cannabis (or something like that), I think its in the Advanced section. UBB and I were having a bit of a discussion on it. Anyway, there are numerous references, links and quoted material in the thread. Should get you going on polyploidism.

                    Colchicine is extremely poisonous. I cant stress that enough. It will kill you if used improperly, or used without the correct protective equipment.

                    Also, the problem with induced polyploids in MJ, the offspring revert back to diploids. Also, I understand maintaining a polyploid is nearly impossible.
                    "I desire knowledge by nature," the words of Aristotle, my nature is not to hate you. So I try to put myself in the depths of the other man, peace to my brother man, in search of my place in this world to discover man, damn check out the colors man.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Useless
                      The picture skunky posted is whorled phyllotaxy. It is a tri-foliate whorled phylotaxy, so SomBud was also correct.

                      There is a good thread on here called Polyploidism in Cannabis (or something like that), I think its in the Advanced section. UBB and I were having a bit of a discussion on it. Anyway, there are numerous references, links and quoted material in the thread. Should get you going on polyploidism.

                      Colchicine is extremely poisonous. I cant stress that enough. It will kill you if used improperly, or used without the correct protective equipment.

                      Also, the problem with induced polyploids in MJ, the offspring revert back to diploids. Also, I understand maintaining a polyploid is nearly impossible.
                      Yea I think the trifoliate thing is just a discriptive term because I don't see it in any of my botany books, just the whorled or spiraled is all I see. Not arguing just never see it in the books on on the mj forums. Anyway so they are supposed to revert back? Have you read anything why this might be? Just seems crazy normally it's remembered by daughter cells although that's not with an induced situation, maybe there is some kind of transient signal that allows a plant or organism to become polyploid kinda of like a positive feedback loop or some of the simply molecular switches. I don't really see the cell being able to revert back thought. I had my doubts about the claims I had seen online about colchincine knowing that it is common used in lab to arrest cells at metaphase and prevent the cell cycle, and in small concentrations like uM and pM. Hell I hate having to use phenol-cholroform-isoamyl alcohol for DNA or triazol for RNA extractions at work, stuff is pretty toxic but still not like the colchicine shit. Glad I don't have to use it.

                      I was just looking around at some ppolyploid junk man I didn't know salmon was a tetraploid, sturgeon oktoploid, some crazy sweedish type of strawberry is a decaploid, and celosia argentia are dodecaploids(they have 12 sets of chromosomes). Looks pretty cool


                      This whole colchicine treatment thing has got me thinking about people who want to say MJ is different today and that it has been altered. They could see the colchicine experiments in Mj and get all freaked out but when it's done with a watermelon to make a tetraploid to breed with the normal diploid to produce sterile triploids(seedless watermelon) it's no problem. Shit japan even has square ones.
                      Last edited by skunky; 02-07-2009, 09:09 AM.
                      What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about?

                      Oh and I found Jesus! He was hiding behind the sofa the whole time!

                      OG breeding FAQs
                      http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35076

                      Strain Lineage List
                      http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33084

                      Chop the tree, smoke the tree!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        From what i heard the 4/400 seed batch did not revert. They received the correct amount of ooze. The ones that received a lower dose of the ooze had a much higher success rate at germing but they did not receive enough to become polyploids. Hurray for Saturdays!! Not quite noon yet and im half lit!!

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                        • #13
                          Do you have a lin or reference to that study MK?

                          RCC talked about the dificulty of maintaining a polyploid...
                          "I desire knowledge by nature," the words of Aristotle, my nature is not to hate you. So I try to put myself in the depths of the other man, peace to my brother man, in search of my place in this world to discover man, damn check out the colors man.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Useless at the moment I do not have a reference to that study! Im half lit at the moment use your google-fu powers and im sure something will come up.. try polyploidism in marijuana. Im no expert at all on any of this stuff. I just spend a whole lot of time on the net trying to not be useless. (HA!)

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                            • #15
                              Um arn't we humans at 44&2 as far as all the genetic humbug goes?
                              Sorry I'm thinking of the Tool song 46&2...

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