Feminized strains (hermi's)

Today I was doing some trimming on 1 of my BIGGEST plants a found several male flowers under the buds and most had opened ,now this plants is 30 days into flower and has major frost kick'in and out of haist I pulled her (it) or he/she whatever it "was" this was a plant grown from femmed seeds "church" was the strain,did I mess up? and kill a plant that wasn't a problem? I have read that "feminized" plants that do produce male flowers are shooting blanks (pollen in no good) is this true? it was one of my best plants and had giant frost coverd buds already and I thought why kill her the damage was done as most male flowers already were opened but like I said out of haist he/she is gone, I looked over the remaining 24 plants in the room and don't see even a hint of seed pods,I need alittle help I have allways grown from seed but pull males @ the first sign of nuts and have never used femmed seeds, I really hated that I killed this plant it "WAS" gonna be a REAL BUD BOMB...

 

My guess is whoever did the fem seed you have doesn't know what the fuck they are doing. People on forums all over the world are fucking up and trying to misled people that fem seeds can be created from hermies from stress or whatever. Yes it is true that when you true and produce fem seed this way you can end up with hermies or no hermies or even sterile hermies however the genes are still present, and that's a problem. True fem seeds, to avoid all the problems people are having lately, shouldn't not be produced from extending flower times, introduce light leaks or anything else like that. Instead they need to be developed using a plant that has desirable traits that can also undergo some stress and not display the hermie trait. The few times I've done this i have choosen the plant i want to fem, grow a few different times and stress it to make sure it won't produce any banannas. Then after about 3-4 cycles of monitoring(These are additinoal to after the first cycle when I choose I wanted it) then I go out and get the supplies for making a silver thiosulfate stock. The supplies are sold as chemicals used for developing film. You apply this to your already proven female this chemical will bind and inhibit ethylene which is the chemical the plant produces that sends a signal for female flower production. So you block the ethylene this in turns makes the ratio between ethylene and gibrillins used the plant to decrease this makes gibrillin the more active compound and stimulates the male flower production. So you induce male flowers by altering the hormones being sensed not being produced and this in turn yields seeds with pure 100% female genes unless the plant you used wasn't pure itself, or the occurence of a rare mutation. Maybe don't mess with buying fem seeds except from someone like DP, I believe they still use the STS method. Haven't bought seeds in a long time, just use clones so i'm not suer which places are safe. But just get you some regular seeds and grow them out find the plant you like the most keep a mom grow it a few more times make sure no suprises occur then get you some STS and make your own. If you want I know where there is a very simple how to for this.

 

I use mostly feminized seeds


I've had a couple hermies, but most turn out female.


The last one that turned hermie I plucked all the balls I could find and then put it in isolation to continue growing.

 

Hermies are not a problem if you suspect them early on...Dutch Masters makes a product they now call REVERSE...use it in weeks 1, 2, and 3 of flower and no male flowers develope, thus no seeds at harvest...

 

Very true just the bad part about that is if you want to keep that particular plant around you got keep the reverse on hand. Just pisses me off to see some of these new half-ass breeders who claim to have feminized seed that really aren't. Kinda fucks over the incoming generation of growers.


Oh and reverse is sometimes tricky to find depending on your local, you may have to order it online.

 

Does that actually work? I tried to do an experiment a while back to see if it works. I did not get any results because no matter how hard I tried, I could not get any hermies. :icon_confused:


Here is the link:


http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26309

 

We bought a small bottle for a grow I helped out with about 3 months ago. We had some sweet purple from Paradise seeds that was hermie and we used this to combat the problem it worked pretty well except for some reason on one round of clones this one plant just wouldn't budge.


Next time maybe try something you know is hermie like some bag seed, those will have a much much higher rate for hermaphorditism. Then you can see some results.


AB i'm still suprised you haven't tried the STS fem method, since you are all about testing shit like me. Or have you?

 

So, it looks like it works most of the time, then. That's good to know. I've still got half a bottle left.


As to the seeds, I used 2nd generation hermie seeds. That is, I had a plant that hermied, planted one of those seeds and the resulting plant hermied. I used the seeds from the second hermie plant and thought for sure its offspring would be hermaphrodites. Well, they weren't... When I have time, I will revisit the DM Reverse.

I've never heard of the STS fem method until today. I will have to give that a try some time.

 

I agree about the deception breeders are using to charge higher prices for hermi seeds they call feminized. I had a couple bad experiences with "feminized" seeds from a company that shall remain nameless. They sucked, very few actual females out of the two batches. I was conviced fem. seeds was a total crock of shit...........


.........Since then I recieved some Old School NL feminized seeds from a trusted breeder and so far out of 7 plants not a male or a hermie in sight. Actually the NL in my gallery is from this pack. Lets hope number 7 stays truely female................

 

tried pming you this AB but it's too big!


Figured you and others might like to read this.


Feminized Seeds Exposed


I gathered this info from a forum post on cannabisworld.com by CM


How To Reverse Sex Using Silver Thiosulfate Solution


The following is a safe, inexpensive, and successful method for reversing the sex of female cannabis plants. Individual plant responses may vary based upon strain, but I can verify that this process is fully effective in stimulating profuse staminate flower production.


This process can be used to:


A: create new feminized seeds from solitary prize mothers that you currently have


B: create interesting feminized-seed hybrids from different prize strains that you currently have


C: create feminized seeds for optimum outdoor use


D: accelerate the "interview" phase of cultivation, in searching for interesting new clone-mothers


E: reduce total plant numbers- great for medical users with severe plant number restrictions


F: increase variety, by helping to create stable feminized seedlines to be used as an alternative to clones


At the bottom of this post are some specific details about the chemicals used, their safety, their cost, and where to get them.


It is important to educate yourself about cannabis breeding theory and technique prior to using a method like this one. Here is a link to Robert Clarke's "Marijuana Botany", which is a very good reference.


"Marijuana Botany" by Robert Connell Clarke


(unfortunately missing the appendices)


http://www.geocities.com/hempgenes/Botany.html


It is also important to use basic safety precautions when mixing and handling these chemicals, so read the safety data links provided. The risk is similar to mixing and handling chemical fertilizers, and similar handling procedures are sufficient.


Remember: nothing will ever replace good genetics, and some of your bounty should always go back towards the professional cannabis breeders out there... the ones who have worked for many generations to come up with their true-breeding F1 masterpieces. Support professional breeders by buying their seeds. Also, order from Heaven's Stairway. Not that they need a plug from me, but they are very professional and provide very fast service worldwide.


Preparation of STS:


First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.


Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.


Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water


Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water


The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.


The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).


This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.


Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss. Excess working solution can be safely poured down the drain after use (with ample running water) with negligible environmental impact. It's pretty cheap.


Each liter of stock STS will make ten 1-liter batches of working solution of STS. With the minimum amount of base chemicals ordered from Photographer's Formulary (see link below), this means that each 1-liter bottle of working solution STS costs less than 9 cents, and can treat 15-20 mid-sized plants. That's 200 1-liter batches of STS for $18. Note that the distilled water costs far more than the chemicals.


Application:


The STS working solution is sprayed on select female plants until runoff. Do the spraying over newspaper in a separate area from the flower room. You probably won't smell anything, but ventilate anyway. You now have what I call a "F>M plant"; a female plant that will produce male flowers.


After the F>M plant dries move it into 12/12 immediately. This is usually done three to four weeks prior to the date that the target (to be pollinated) plants will be ready to pollinate. Response times may vary slightly depending upon the strain. More specific times can be determined by trial with your own individual strains. In my trials it took 26 days for the first pollen. 30-35 days seems optimum for planning purposes.


So, assuming that a target plant needs 3-4 weeks to produce fully mature seeds, a strain that takes 8 weeks to mature should be moved into flower at about the same time as the female>male plant. A target plant that finishes flowering in 6 weeks needs to be moved into flower later (10 days or so) so that it doesn't finish before the seeds can fully mature.


A seeded individual branch can be left to mature on a plant for a bit longer, while harvesting the other seedless buds if they finish first. Just leave enough leaves on for the plant for it to stay healthy.


Effects:


Within days I noticed a yellowing of the leaves on the F>M plants. This effect persisted for two weeks or so; after this they became green again, except for a few of the larger fans. The plants otherwise seemed healthy. No burning was observed. Growth stopped dead for the first ten days, and then resumed slowly. No stretch was ever seen. After two weeks the F>M plants were obviously forming male flower clusters. Not just a few clusters of balls, but complete male flower tops. One plant still formed some pistillate flowers, but overall it was predominantly male.


It is strange indeed to see an old girlfriend that you know like the back of your hand go through a sex change. I'll admit that things were awkward between us at first.


When the F>M plants look like they may soon open and release pollen, ( 3-1/2 to 4 weeks) move them from the main flower room into another unventilated room or closet with lighting on a 12/12 timer. Don't worry too much about watts per square foot; it will only be temporary.


When the pollen flies, move your target plants into the closet and pollinate.


A more controlled approach is to isolate the F>M plants in a third remote closet (no light is necessary in this one, as they are releasing pollen now and are nearly finished anyway). In this remote other closet the pollen is very carefully collected in a plastic produce bag or newspaper sleeve and then brought back to the lighted closet, where the target plants are now located. If this is done, be careful to not mix pollen types by letting the F>Ms dust each other. Avoid movement, or use yet another closet.


Take special care to not let pollen gather on the outside of this bag- a static charge is sometimes present. Drop small open clusters of blooms inside and then close the bag at the mouth and shake. Important: next, step outside and slowly release the excess air from the bag, collapsing it completely, so that pollen doesn't get released accidently. Point downwind; don't let it get on your hands or clothes.


This collapsed pollinated bag is now very carefully slipped over only one branch and is then tied off tightly at the mouth around the branch stem with a twist tie or tape, sealing the pollen inside. Let the bag inflate slightly with air again before sealing it off, so the branch can breathe. This technique keeps the entire plant from seeding. Agitate the bag a bit after tying it off to distribute the pollen. Don't forget to label the branch so you know which seeds are which. Other branches on this same plant can be hit with different pollen sources.


If no lighted closet is available, the plant can be moved back into the main room, but- be very careful: pollen is sneaky. After 4-5 days, the bag is gently removed and the plant completes it's flowering cycle.


Yet another method has worked well for me. I position the target plants in a non-ventilated lighted closet, and then I collect pollen on a piece of mirror or glass. This is then carefully applied to the pistils of one pre-labeled branch by using a very fine watercolor paintbrush. Care is taken to not agitate the branch or the pollen. No sneezing. The plant needs to be in place first; moving it after pollination can shake pollen free and blow this technique.


Regardless of technique, at completion you will have feminized seeds. Let them dry for 2-4 weeks.


About the chemicals:


Silver nitrate is a white crystalline light-sensitive chemical that is commonly used in photography. It is also used in babies' eyes at birth to prevent blindness. It can cause mild skin irritation, and it stains brown. Avoid breathing. I didn't notice any smell or fumes, but ventilation is recommended. Be sure to wash the spray bottle well before you use it elsewhere; better yet: devote a bottle to STS use. A half gram is a surprisingly small amount; it would fit inside a gel capsule.


Here are links to some safety data. A Google search will bring up more information if needed.


Silver Nitrate info:


http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng1116.html


http://www.lions.odu.edu/~redwards/...%20solution.pdf


For a realistic hazard level comparison, here is a link for the safety and handling data for Ammonium Nitrate, or common fertilizer:


http://www.skcgulfcoast.com/nioshdb...ng/neng0216.htm


Sodium thiosulfate is also a white crystalline chemical commonly used in photography; it is used in photographic fixers. Same general cautions apply, minus the staining. This formula uses the anhydrous type. Non-hazardous.


Sodium Thiosulfate info:


http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/SO/s...hiosulfate.html


http://www.med-chem.com/MSDS/Sodium_Thiosulf.htm


------------------


Where to get the chemicals:


http://www.photoformulary.com


silver nitrate: 10 grams: $10


http://www.photoformulary.com/Deskt...yID=27&langID=0


sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous): 100 grams: $3.95


http://www.photoformulary.com/Deskt...yID=28&langID=0


Postage runs around $4. Fast service. Can be shipped to Canada.


Have fun experimenting with this technique. Use it responsibly. There are a few good threads here at CW that go into the pros and cons of transsexual agents and feminized seeds. Read them. And most importantly, use STS with quality F1 strains developed by professional breeders for the most consistent results.


A huge thanks to Fet from Spice Brothers Seeds for his help and advice in using this technique. I simply brought together available information from previous posts and tried my own recipe. I'm thrilled to share the results. Future tests will be done to adjust the formula so the molar ratios of the chemicals are correct, as specified by Gobgoober (thanks, Gob) but the formula posted here is completely effective.


_________________

 

Thanks Skunky!


I've got a White Satin mother plant that I've been taking clones off for a bunch of different experiments and has, so far, not hermied. That might be a good candidate. Can't do it until the spring, but this should be fun.

 

You can also use giberillic acid to induce male flowers on a female and not get the undesirable hermie effect in the offspring. It acts similar to the STS, however it literally adds giberillins to the plant forcing it to produce male flowers. Nice read skunky.

 

ive only ordered from one seedbank so far, (actually i never received the second order i made through another middleman,) an every seed i germinated was female and gave unexpectedly stable results. the strain was white russian, and the seedbank was serious.


i dont wanna sound like i work for serious or anything, but they pride themselves on only selling a few award winning strains, and having some of the most stable genetics. out of 8 seeds germinated, all popped and were female. i couldnt even notice a difference in phenotypes.


i was taught to only pay for the best seeds for this very reason, and im almost positive ill be ordering another strain from serious seeds.

 

Yup! Also, another method similar to STS i know you can use but don't like recomending because it's a bit odd. It is called ionic silver and is simple but weird. You need only distilled water, 6v battery, silver plates(2)or silver wire and a airstone. Get a glass container fill it with the distilled water and place the airstone inside. Then obtain a 6v power source(Big battery for flashlights and such) and either silver plates attached to bananna clips or an actual silver wire. You place whichever you choose to use in the water, attach to bananna clips and then hook up to the battery. You let that run for 5-6 hours then unhook the battery. You bottle up the water and you should notice the silver left behind. You just shake it up and spray the plants down with it like STS. You have ratios to use but thats it in a but shell. You are also supposed to be able to use collidal silver and you can buy that at GNC stores. Not positive on that one though. All pretty much work the same with silver acting as an inhibitor.

 

I've had hermie fem seeds from top breeders DP & GreenHouse.

 

See it's things like this that make me wonder. 1. did you possibly get some of there older experiments(1st gen fem) because they used to use extended flower mechanisms like soma when they first started but are now supposed to use GA to induce the males, 2. Are any of the seedbanks possibly being fraudulent? I mean it's weird when you can talk to the guys who breed for them online, talk to them about their methods and rates and they never have a specific line turn at certain conditions like others have so just makes me wonder if there might be some dishonest somewhere down the line, i/e someone swapping out some seeds.


Here is a little article i dug up real quick. The owner of DP briefly talks about feminized seeds and also how to obtain more females from just standard seed aswell. http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1332.html


Not sure about greenhouses methods but who knows they are old school, If i were to buy from them I would get there standard seeds as they are pretty good and pretty stable. Alot of the older companies that began the whole thing like these two had problems with the fem lines at first and were getting decreased stability of a variety some just simply because the plants didn't take well to the methods they were using causing it to become destabilized. Heritability actually has a lot to do with expression of a trait and when certain traits are expressed.


hope atleast a sentence of this readable, i'm extremely tired!

 

I bought these seeds from chronic site serious seed company is the breeder and they have been around awhile, but what I needed to know from all of you is the pollen produced from a femmed strain that turn hermi still able to make seed because I have 24 other female plants in that room where I pulled this hermi, but I haven't seen even a slight hint of seed pods on any of the other plants, and like I said this plant was a beautifull plant with major frost production and I really hated to kill "IT"" but I want to know if the pollen will affect my other plants, I have heard that plants grown from femmed seeds that produce male flowers in with some bud that seed setting hardly takes place, I just needed some more advice on this subject, will the pollen it spit out be potent or just a dud?

 

the pollen will be as potent as any other male pollen, if you got it early though, it may not have dumped pollen on your ladies..........

 

Mine were purchased within the last year.

 

Pollen is pollen is pollen.....


It will still pollinate...that's the point of pollen....but yeah, catch it early, should be okay....


Skunky...awesome read! I 've been farting aroung with hermies the last few seasons, trying to wean out the bad hermie genes, and made it this year to 120 days before having bananas....but I'm pretty sure that was the peak. Next year will probably suck. I've never bought seeds, and probably never will...there are too many swimmers in the gene pool anymore, if ya get my drift....and normally I would frown on the use of these chemicals, but honestly, I don't see a problem and think it's quite ingenious of people to have this kind of knowledge and base for propagation of this particular species. But, I don't like the idea that seed companies charge ourageous prices for something that may or may not be female, or even the strain they say it is....If you've had luck with buying, great! Keep it up! Not for me...I like my personal gene pool here.....it's private!