How safe are we?

I just got to thinkin, how safe are we on this site? I.P. addresses and all? Is there any precautionary steps taken on users behalves? Thanks for the input!

 

The Mods can explain it best.

 

If anyone gets busted it won't have anything to do with any grow site. After someone gets busted they might search the computer for additional evidence. But I really have no idea and am just speculating.

 

RkinG


i asked this very same thing a few months ago... and one of the things that put me at ease is that your local LEO doesnt have the resources or manpower to scour forums looking for small time closet and tent grows... not to mention all the people who have been growing and posting for ten years or so on here without incident... i also have wondered if the disclaimers some people have as their signatures have any merit?

 

Yes, you are completely safe as long as you follow the guidelines listed above. If LEO is looking at this site, you have already fucked up along the way. As of right now the government protects the freedoms of the internet and there is truly no "internet tap." The process to get a warrant to force an ISP to give out information on you, or any internet company as well, is one of the hardest categories of warrant to obtain. In addition to that, Webby has the right to refuse to give out any information requested (in general).


Your IP is protected, but it doesn't really matter anyway: It is EASY to use a fake proxy and the only information one can get from an IP is the state and city you are connecting from.


And as was mentioned, we have free speech on our side. If it were illegal to talk about growing pot and showing pictures of it, then Barnes and Noble wouldn't sell cultivation books.

 

Thanks for the ease guys!

 

I had this question too and for the most part everyone is right LEO isn't looking to kick down the door on closet growers. They want head lines which is hundreds or thousands of plants or a lot of dry weight. They want to bust people stealing Electricity and renting houses solely to ruin them by growing weed in every room.


When you setup a safe room to grow enough so that you don't have to feed the criminal element your actually helping the police by taking money away from criminals.

 

Hate to burst bubbles...


For the types of discussions I see going on in here, I honestly don't think anyone has anything to worry about. I mean as previously stated by several of you, the police aren't looking to hand out misdemeanors to the J-walkers of MJ cultivation (aka the closet growers).


However, I have read the FAQ on how safe this is, and additionally saw LionLoves420's comment on the previous page - both regarding IP addresses. Leme break this down for you in as little detail as possible.


The IP addresses on our home computers are dynamic. This means we don't always have the same one, it changes fairly frequently. However our IP addresses, no matter how much they change / we force them to change, ALWAYS reflect which ISP (internet service provider, ie Time Warner, Cox, Verizon FIOS) we're using, and furthermore the specific geographic branch of that ISP.


Going to that ISP, they keep records (length of time of record keeping varies from ISP to ISP, since - as of right now - there are no federal laws regulating this in the US) of which IP addresses each and every one of us was assigned at any given time. This is accomplished using something called a MAC address, which all of our network interface cards (modem, ethernet card, router) have.


While this site may not maintain records of IP addresses and their specific activities, our ISPs may vary well have records of everything you've done. Christ our own web browsers, by default, record an unnerving amount of activity. There is nothing saying your ISP cannot record whatever it wants, for as long as it wishes.


My point is simply this: if you want it to be 100% impossible for anyone to find out what you've done / are doing on the internet, well... people in hell want ice water. There is NO way to ever guarantee that. Once you've transmitted something off your computer and pushed it out to your ISP, game over, all bets are off.


If you don't want people to see your bare ass, then don't leave the privacy of your home without your clothes on. This is no different. It may be tiny, faster than speeding bullet, electrons traveling the world across copper wires or fiber optic cable that you're putting out there for the world to see. Nonetheless they are out there for interested parties to see.


Having said all that, no one here should have to worry about shit. The only people who are really shooting themselves in the foot are people like the fucking idiot who posted this https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=62895 who is most likely in prison now, precisely because he posted that. I hands down guarantee, I don't care what promises webmasters made, that if anyone in law enforcement saw that, that guy is now in prison for the rest of his life.


1) Dumbass publicly announces that he is masterminding one of the largest criminal MJ cultivation rings in the US. Well... even if it's not one of the largest, that is huge, and would definitely give any DEA agent a raging hard on.


2) DEA agent goes to above URL, prints out relevant material, goes to judge.


3) Judge gives a warrant for DEA to monitor whatever the fuck they want, and subpoena whatever they want.


4) DEA and FBI techies get together and start high fiving about how they get to violate the living hell out of American citizen's privacy.


5) Said techs find Julian (the guy in question), and it's very easy for them to do it since in his profile on ICMAG he lists 6 friends that the feds can shake down to find out who he really is. Additionally he is still active on the forum, so they can simply break into the building housing ICMAG server and install monitoring software to tell them which class 3 ISP Julian is coming from. Yes, this is well within the feds' capability, to be honest is probably a walk in the park for them. Yes, they do it all the time. Hell, I could do what I just said if I really wanted to and had a few thousand bucks for burglar equipment.


6) Go to Julian's ISP, show their warrant, ISP gives them Julian's real name, billing address, email address, phone number, residential address, shoe size and if he prefers redhead, blonde, or brunette.


Good game.


This long winded scenario is all coming down to one point: if you don't want law enforcement to ever know about it, do NOT let it leave your computer. I'm not going to argue the accuracy of these statements, they are objective matters of fact. Once it leaves your computer, you can never go back. That information is forever available to anyone who wants to look hard enough for it.


So for us closet growers, lol w/e none of this really even matters. But if you're thinking of going huge, you'd be well advised to keep any fact of the matter - or even so much as a reference or allusion to such effect - off the internet.

 

I too have had this notion in the back of my head. One of the reason I haven't posted any pictures.... of course the second reason for no pictures is that I haven't done it before and not very tech savvoy.

 

God forbid ya get busted you will be black listed on here.

 

I guess im on the List then huh? Ohh well, by the way when i got raided both times they didnt even bother lookin at my computer. In fact this last time the detective specifically told me that he hates bustin a guy growin some plants. They came to my house cause some fuck got caught with some shit and tried to pawn his troubles off on me. Trust me if i was a bitch and wanted to snitch, i have way bigger fish to fry than any people on here. I dont know everything on how they use the computers to track and locate people, but i do know they have other shit to do n never heard of anyone that has been busted here cause of what they posted.

 

I'm not sure that it's entirely possible any longer.


In the old days, when you wanted to break into a computer and not get caught, a common technique was to intentionally route your signal around the globe before it arrived at its destination. The reason this technique worked so well was because national governments were not always so willing to work with one another to exchange information on signals passing through their sovereignty. These days there is a lot more cooperation and it happens a lot quicker.


The other technique that comes straight to mind is IP address spoofing. This is much more common, and easy to learn how to do. Although, admittedly, I have never personally done it and so can not instruct you how to do it. Essentially you force your cable modem, or router, to display a false IP address to the rest of the internet. In this case when feds go knocking on Cox Cable's door with their search warrant, and say "tell us everything about the person who had IP address 149.23.8.223, on February 12, 2011", the guys at Cox say "uh......."


I mean if you want to hide, I'm sure there are ways to achieve it. And the same can be said of finding someone. If I may respectfully suggest, none of us on here really need to hide. My last reply was basically a hypothetical response. Posting pictures of 1, 2, even 50 plants is not enough to awake the sleeping giant. No federal agent is bored enough to randomly browse pot forums, and decide to take after one guy growing 20 plants in his basement, and come bust him for the misdemeanor.


On the other hand, if you have a multi-million dollar operation going and you're stupid enough to post every detail and pictures of it, and a DEA agent gets wind of that, now you're probably in trouble. But they don't just go randomly surfing the net looking for possibilities. Most people are smart enough not to post things that will draw attention.


The worst thing that comes of us posting, is a loss of legal innocence. I suppose an analogy is relevant at this point. We're like the high school 16 year old girl who just had sex with the homecoming king on prom night (and used protection). Is this truly the end of the world, or anything bad? No, but she cannot go back. She is no longer a virgin, and there is no going back.


We are not virgins any longer either. That in and of itself is not a bad thing, and will probably never become an issue. However what we do have is a paper trail now.


If the feds ever had cause to investigate me for any reason, well 10 years ago they'd do their digging then leave me alone. Why? Cuz they wouldn't have found anything. Instead let's now say I was running a large operation, and they had reason to investigate. Now what do they find? Using the force of their subpoena they get my bank statements. They find a debit card purchase from the attitude seed bank. Then they find a bunch of posts on this website from my computer. At this point I have their attention, and they won't stop til they get a conviction.


It is because of this realization that I will never, ever, actually sell anything I produce. I guess this is what I've been driving at this whole time. With every stupid mistake we make, we leave a paper trail. And it's one that, without a whoooooole lot of money to bribe bank / ISP employees, won't go away.


for the wall of texts. With the upcoming outdoor grow season my partner has been sweating me to "grow big or go home", and I guess I needed someone to understand my position. He's a great and loyal friend, but he's too reckless. I don't care how large the amount of money to be potentially won, the risk of going to jail, or ruining my family's name, does not justify the money.


Grow well, grow safe brothers and sisters.

 

At no point in this thread has anyone posted that there is zero risk.

 

As safe as you wanna be...I been around for years and years...and grow marijuana like tommorrow never knows...they got bigger fish to fry I think...at least that is my belief, and I am sticking to it like a sticky nug sticking to the wall!!...paranoia, big destroyer...lol...grow on dude...just do it!! :alienwink:


...DC...:XXsunsmile::new_scatter:

 

Haha that actually cracked me up

Skuzz I'd have to say I agree w/you brother. Please allow me to very clearly state what exactly I was trying to convey.
I've personally never seen anyone claim that there is zero inherent risk with participating in MJ forums. I think what happens, however, is that people read the FAQ about IP addresses and believe no matter what they can't be tracked. Your average internet user these days is not very network savy, and doesn't understand what an IP address is, or much less the implications of that FAQ. They read that this server destroys IP logs every 10 min or whatever time interval it was, and breathe a sigh of relief, thinking to themselves "Well thank God! If the server doesn't keep my IP address, that must mean I'm safe from ever being tracked, under any conditions."


The reasoning behind my posts thus far is two fold. First, as previously stated, I sought vindication from the pressure my partner was putting on me.


The second reason though was selfless. The implications of internet protocol addressing, and the details of said addressing - which are typically unknown to most users - could mean, under certain circumstances, the difference between liberty and a cage.


The miles of red tape, the hoops through which we are forced to jump, to grow and smoke some harmless marijuana, make me want to vomit. It's like some appalling and humorless joke the government plays on us.


Douchebag Whitehouse Advisor (henceforth referred to as DWA): "Hey Barrack, you ever wonder how far people would actually go to smoke weed?", DWA looks wistfully at the President, where the two sit indian style in the oval office, sharing a fatty joint that was rolled up using the prospective bill to legalize marijuana as rolling paper.


The President, pupils dilated, fixated on the end of the joint, as he marvels at the beauty of the microscopic embers, in their ephemeral flare, does not immediately answer.


DWA nudges him. "Yo B... still with me?"


The President starts from his quandry, and takes another hypocritical drag. "I bet I know how we could find out. Let's keep MJ illegal for the rest of my term, maybe even step up drug enforcement at the federal level. Then watch the 'cream' rise to the top. We'll find out who loves MJ the most that way."


"Ha!", DWA laughs, coughing hard and choking on the smoke as he exhales, "I bet you $1,000 and lay you 5:1 odds if we keep it illegal for another 3 years, we could get congress to vote us more power through the Dictat, err.... Patriot Act."


"You're on, you motor boating son of a bitch you! Fuck, I'm hungry. Let's go make some french toast"


Anyway, back to the subject...


The average user on this forum strikes me as a pleasant, content, 25-50 year old, good-natured person who is a good citizen, and likes to smoke some MJ now and then. Therefore the users of this forum should in fact feel completely safe.


It appears to me, however, that people feel safe for the wrong reason. They should not feel safe because they cannot be located by LEO, should LEO feel so inclined to locate them, due to this server's non-maintenance of IP records. They should feel safe for the same reason they feel safe growing in the privacy of their own home. It is not because no one can track our IP activity, or because we design our grow rooms well to be stealthy and no one can detect them. It is because no one has reason to track our IPs or snoop around our houses looking for grow rooms.


I'm sure many will read this and think "Who gives a rat's left nut why we're safe, so long as we are?" The more ambitious, entrepreneurial audience of this forum should care. Once you step out of the closet growing arena, and begin to follow the path of the big boy growers, the difference in the reasons why the rest of us feel safe could potentially become suddenly and glaringly clear.


It is for the sake of those who would endeavor to turn a large profit from growing MJ (again, we're talking growing thousands and thousands of plants) but lack the technical expertise to realize that sharing that large grow in this forum is an awful idea, that I have posted this information.


Forgive me if I've frightened anyone, or if my posts come across as contrite or contrary in nature. That is not what I intended at all. I work in IT, and thought that for 30 minutes of my fingers' effort I might someday keep one of you fine people from doing 20+ years in prison for the "crime" of marijuana cultivation. We of course will never know if I've actually kept someone out of the clink. But if I have, hey... amen!!


To the rest of us small time closet growers, post on in 100% comfort and peace of mind. Grow safe, grow well, peace my brothers and sisters.