See, this is classsic bul by the government. I am an Eagle Scout and was a leader and will be a leader for many years, as well as working at and helping at the camps. I don't believe in the gay ban, but this sure is a bully ass move to force a group to do something the courts already ruled they have the right to do. http://news.yahoo.com/calif-tax-bill-seeks-punish-scouts-gay-ban-193252719.html
I'm all on the Rights bandwagon, but Freedom to do also means Freedom to not do. Here's one from Washington that got my goat. It's such a fine line between the old whites only signs and freedom to follow ones religious teaching, whether I agree with it or not doesn't matter. The courts are all over the board too. We had a tortilla company here that lost a suit to Somali Muslims over proper clothing on a factory line. No loose clothing or face coverings for safety reasons. The employees won on practice of religion and the owner now has unsafe working conditions. Go figger? http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-washington-gay-wedding-florist-arlene-20130410,0,5981622.story
I'm not entirely sure where I stand on the issue. Here in Japan people generally believe that private businesses should have the right to discriminate against whomever they like, as in not do business with people they don't like, and there are some few places around that have 'No Foreigners' signs outside their doors. (Usually outside an American military base, or port city that gets a lot of Russian ships.) No foreigners signs aren't common at all, but a very common blanket ban is no tattoos in the public baths. It's meant to keep Yakuza out, but affects anyone with a tattoo. Also, most "massage parlors" won't take foreigners, either, because they think we're dirty. Which, I don't care about, but I have been discriminated against for housing, though, where people wouldn't rent to me, because I was a foreigner. Racial discrimination isn't illegal here, though. Japan is a signatory country to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, and as such, they are required to install laws prohibiting racial discrimination, but they haven't, and no one really cares. It's a non-issue. I've argued/raged against the no tattoo rule a lot though, because it affects me on a more regular basis. I was asked to give a couple of talks about human rights to local groups and I pointed out both times that, even though people always snicker when I say 'tattoo discrimination', to ban tattooed people does violate their human rights as defined in the United Nation's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, specifically Article 27 (1). It's an interesting read, if anyone's interested. http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml So, on the one hand, it seems like people should be free to serve or not serve whomever they like, as a business. On the other hand, small, powerless groups can easily get pushed around by an antagonistic majority, and having some laws protecting them is a good thing, I think. I would give safety precedence, though. I would definitely side with the tortilla factory against the Somalis, or having a possibly communicable skin disease would be a legit reason to ban someone from a public bath. Tattoos are just a matter of taste, though, not safety. As far as the BSA goes, I'm not sure if I would go with making them accept scouts of any sexual/religious variety, or not. Sure, they are a private organization, but then what about discrimination by private businesses? If I own a small family restaurant and put a 'No Blacks' sign in the window, is that ok? What's the difference, really? :read2: Anyways, where to draw the line is the question, I guess.
The BSA needs to changed or we as a country do. While BSA has the right to deny gays, it cant do so if it sucks the public tit as much as it does. Because the BSA gets a special place in our country, it needs to either get off that tit and stop getting special treatment or accept gays
The biggest obsticule has been the Churches, mainly the Mormon church. Most BSA groups are sponsored by a church, and those religious groups don't want this policy changed. It is going to change though, there are too many openly gay scouts now and the next generation of leaders could give a rats ass. When I was in (and this was the 90's!) we knew who was gay and who wasn't, but no body talked about it. Some people cared (it is the south after all), but other wise the only instances of abuse I know of were cases of a STRAIGHT male molesting a STRAIGHT male child. Again, though, I don't think our tax code should be used to give or take away privileges from groups. Hell, everyone except legit non-profits should be paying, church or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America it's tech a federally chartered corp...so like I said, either they need to change, or our gov needs to change this
Right, but 90% of troops meet in a religious building and get money from them. That is two heads colliding right there, govt and religion for a civic organization!
easy fix....change the gov charter then let them do as they please. they are a dying organization anyways, who cares. while i think the sense of community is good, camping is fun and teaches some skills, over all this is nothing your family shouldn't be doing anyways. You need no club for this, but to each their own. I just think it's amusing because you can't be atheist and be a scout....I'd like to see em fix that as well
I was an athiest and a Scout. It wasn't big deal because no one made it one, and I didn't go around bashing others because they believed. I remember one time at the camp they had one of the national level people come talk to us in diversity training (which we had to go through because of one bad egg in a troop, not even a leader or camp worker). He comes in there with a rebel flag on his big ass truck talking like a redneck; he didn't last long. One thing scouting teaches you is tolerance. Telling a bunch of 19 year old, pot smoking, peace-loving, kids we should accept everyone while he hunts black people for sport on the weekend was ridiculous. A few of us almost lost our heads for that one. Scouting isn't for everyone, and each troop is different and none are without their problems. But it is a great program that I've seen turn a troubled child into a productive adult time and time again. Parents should be doing this stuff too, yes, but Scouting has a place for everyone, more so those in the intercities that don't get a chance at learning to do these things.
actually they will throw you out if you are openly atheist The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, ‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’ The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies I was a cub scout, never went to boy scouts because of the God thing. It was never an issue with my Den, but a troop leader made a comment to me during an outing and while I wasn't forced out or treated differently, once I completed the arrow of light, I left the organization as did almost everyone I know for their own reasons. Pinewood derbies were fun, i'll give em that, but I learned nothing there really and my den was made up of my friends and our "den mom" was my best friend's mother. WE continued to do stuff, just not as cub/boy scouts
My continued best friends are ones I met while working at the camp. Not only did the scouts teach me skills I use to this day, but it let me teach others about my passions like art, pottery, and landscaping. There is also no greater joy than spending two days getting a kid from the city who has never seen a lake learn how to swim. In the south religion, specifically Christianity, is in your face 24/7. If I opted out of every good opportunity because I don't believe in some great being in the sky I would never do anything. With that said, a group of about 5 of us almost got kicked out of camp and the scouts multiple times for challenging these exact problems.
