And the fact that ANYONE who disagrees with me saying we are smarter than this is a big WHAT THE FUCK?
I disagree that "were smarter than that" As a whole, society has done nothing but show how incompetent they are from making the right choices and decisions. People in general are fucking retarded! Why do you think it is that corporations rule and comntrol every aspect of everything that happens in this country? Cuz PEOPLE = SHEEPLE
SOCIETY as a WHOLE is the key there. If we already have breeders, Use or not, MMj people, and the rest, why is this an issue? It is a marker in genetics that makes it a copyright, not the seed itself. AND the courts don't like this shit. It won't be legal in two years.
That shit is not common knowledge, neither are the skills or equipment required to apply such knowledge, were it "readily available". To claim so is pure crazy town. asssit: It's amazing to me that you can make such outrageous and absurd claims while being totally serious. Edit: Btw, yeah, I'll get right on looking that up after I finish making my first gun. Should just be a few decades. I'll get back to you.
Take a long hard look in the mirror, dude, and ask yourself "Wtf, am I talking about?" Seriously, it's like you've been watching too many movies or something. Btw, crossing two plants to make seeds isn't exactly the same thing as splicing shit together on the gene level. :BangHead:
Look it up. Articles everyday about teenagers doing this shit in their kitchen for science projects. I am not saying EVERYONE can do it, but I am pretty sure we could on this site.
OK, first let me point out that genetic recombination and selective breeding (what I and every breeder does) are way different than genetic engineering (what Monsanto does). Unfortunately, your kitchen theory is false. Your microwave is not an electron microscope, your toaster is not a centrifuge and your oven is not a DNA sequencer. Does your kitchen look like this? Do you have one of these in your cupboard? Or one of these? Lets talk cost - Electron microscope - aprox. $150,000 DNA sequencer - approx. $500,000 - $600,000 Computer to run sequencer - approx. $25,000-$50,000 Centrifuge - approx. $300 - $1500 depending on model and manufacturer. I'm sure everyone here has 3/4 of a million dollars to deck out their kitchen into a nice DNA lab. Lets talk required knowledge - I sure as fuck couldn't do any of that. I'm sure there are many that can, microbiologists etc. but this is well out of the scope of capabilities of 99% of breeders. The only person I can think of that could do this from our community is Chimaera. That dude is a cannabis genetic genius. You could grow food yourself, sure. But what happens when farmer john down the road grows a GMO crop and yours gets pollinated from his? The genetic marker is put in a gene required for recombination, therefore you can not just breed it out, it must be removed on a genetic level in a lab. Even then, you gotta find it in the DNA first, which is a complex and time consuming task in itself. We have already seen farmers get sued by Monsanto and lose everything because of cross pollination of the farmers non GM crops with GM crops. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/supreme-court-wont-let-farmer-dodge-monsantos-patented-seeds/ http://www.mnn.com/your-home/organic-farming-gardening/stories/monsanto-wins-lawsuit-against-indiana-soybean-farmer Monsanto wants their money. From the Monsanto website... http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/why-does-monsanto-sue-farmers-who-save-seeds.aspx Someone brought up the Monsanto Law earlier in the thread. This law was discreetly hidden in an Agri funding bill. Most of the senators who signed the bill didn't even know it was attached to the bill. Basically it provides Monsanto with complete immunity from any court ruling that deems a GM crop harmful. It was added to the bill under the guise of the protection of American food supplies. You can read about it here.. http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/mpa.asp You can read up on the effects Monsanto has had in Argentina and the soy crops. Soy is the biggest agri crop produced there. Monsanto made arrangements with the government which basically forced soy farmers to buy round up ready soy beans. The farmland has become wasteland and numerous people are sick and dying from the pesticide treatments. http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_19024.cfm Oh, and the farmers now have to pay Monsanto royalties... http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/07/us-argentina-monsanto-soy-idUSTRE75656V20110607 Like I said, Monsanto just wants their money. The long term destruction of natural crops and the sick and dying people mean nothing to them. To think that someone working in a home lab can reverse what has been and will be done, is just a fallacy. While I applaud your grass roots movement mentality, the simple fact is we can't even get cannabis rescheduled from a class 1 drug to class 2 in order to research the benefits of the plant. Thinking that we will be able to change agri laws and overturn the monopoly is somewhat of a naive view. just my two copper pieces.
I can't even get the mites out of my grow room, ffs. Much less extract a fucking gene. :icon_confused:
I know and understand the point Lions trying to make and also his personal stance on the mater in general. But i keep reverting back to WHY should we have to do this,WHY should be even have to worry about long term effects of our food supply if we are the consumers and the ones with the supposed powers. BTW good post Useless,thanks for all the links cos this is defo an issue im keeping my eye on in general.TBH Useless it was your reply to my thread about the patent for MJ marking that made me start to read up on Monsanto. This is what should be a concern for the MJ industry in some way. Cos what if mnsanto gets their hands on the hemp and MMJ industries that are cropping up. Will they jump into bed with the govt to make sure the only weed that goes around is Monsanto weed?Get caught with weed that aint monsanto/GW Pharma weed and your paying big fines and risking jail? Its a pandoras box. Im interested to see what happens in this area. I can so forsee the govt,monsanto and gw phrama all getting into bed in this area to try shut out the small guys. Whats to stop the Air Force spraying crops around the world via drones in order to kill naural crops and then drop millions of monsanto style seeds from the air that have monsanto markers in them or even that grow and produce sterile seeds??? Its far fetched i know but point being,10-20 years down the line could Monsanto style thinking fuck up the blossoming weed industry. I guess my question really is direct to you useless and is "what dangers or concerns do YOU have as a breeder and mover and shaker in the MJ industry,if any?(about genetic marking and other types of monsanto/GW pharm style thinking) BTW Hank do they have GMO in Japan? Do you guys have to label whats in all your foods like we do in the UK
I haven't heard anything about GMOs in Japan and I'd be really surprised if there were any. Japanese are very concerned and pay close attention to their food supply. Tbh, I don't even think there are any corporate farms at all here either. Unlike the states, everything here that I've heard of and certainly everything I've seen personally is small family farms. They get lots of subsidies from the government. Lots of small fields. Lots of people engaged in farming, even just part-time. Prices are higher, of course, but that's the trade-off. People have to make a living. :good job:
Useless is spot on like I said earlier....there's a major difference between selective breeding and GMOs. Picking a plant that grows the biggest fruit is a far cry from injecting a virus that contains animal DNA into a plant. Mutating genes without knowing fully what you are turning on and off can only lead to disaster. While this was started with the best of intentions, it's Frankenstein's Monster for sure. GMOs bring nothing to the table that selective breeding cannot. Selective breeding just takes longer and costs more money over time. And for the life of me, someone explain to me how you have a plant that herbicide doesn't kill?!?! That aint fucking natural...and I love science, but this is pandoras box
Oh shit, Nippie's a mod. Guess I missed the thread where the new mods were introduced. Don't shoot me man. I'm only armed with my wit. :danger:
holy shit...I'm a mod now...when did this happen:5eek: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/japan-gmo-wheat-food-concerns_n_3357240.html that may some interest to you hank I think most fail to realize that the US lags in food safety. Our legal standards are so low that 7/11 wouldn't buy products produced to those standards. Yeap, that hot dog sitting in 7/11 has more safety precautions in place than most produce in the super market. Most companies in the US use BRC standards when it comes to food safety because US standards are to low. To do biz with any large corporations you must use BRC same as all food for export. I don't care if it says organic, cage free, or anything else on the label...it's all bullshit. It's how someone filed a piece of paper, nothing more. The chances of even getting inspected in the US are retardedly low...like non-existent unless you are doing direct biz with the Feds or other Gov agency You know up til this year it was up to the individual company to determine the safe amount of glass and metal in your food? Monsanto is only a symptom of the illness that the US faces. We have the most disgusting food change in the world.....really we do. That's why most US companies use BRC standards instead of US standards. Its just companies like Monsanto that choose to take advantage of US laws which raises eyebrows to most people....but the sheeple fail to realize its the laws that are bad as a corporation is just there to make a profit. Most corporations operate inside the law, even Monsanto.....so ultimately is congress's fault for not stopping this, not Monsanto for doing this. But then again, who do you think Congress is loyal to... US or mega corporation that make congressmen rich? BTW...even using British standards...you have to worry about horse meat:thumbsup:
I'm sure Monsanto and GW pharma will control the majority of hemp seed production and sales as well as the cannabis drug cultivar as legalization pushes forward and ultimately the drug laws reflect the will of the nation. Cannabis is the number one agri crop in the nation. Even corn, the number two crop doesn't come close in annual monetary terms. You can bet your kilt and bagpipes they'll be the ones to control the majority. That said, I'm not too worried about the cannabis aspect from a personal view. I do what I do because I love the plant. They can imprison me, sue me, take all my worldly possessions, but they can't take that from me. I will always grow my own creations, always combine and look for what I prefer in my cannabis, whether it be for medicinal or recreational use. The passion I ( and many others) put into what I do can not be duplicated by big Pharma. In tobacco speak, they have Phillip Morris and RJ Reynolds, but somewhere in Georgia is a farmer growing the only 16 acres of Perique tobacco on the planet. In alcohol terms, sure piss water err budweiser has the majority of sales, but there still is a market for the micro brew. There are many people like me that will pay $15 USD for a 750ml bottle of Chimay over a $15 USD 18 pack of bud light. The key for people in this industry as with all industry, is that the market is fluid, dynamic. Therefore your business model must be fluid and adaptable to the current market climate. If you cant be fluid and adapt, you become stagnant, stale, and die off. My problem with what Monsanto does is they do everything to monopolize the entire seed market for a given crop, thus removing the choice to buy a better beer, or better tobacco, or ultimately better cannabis. And they hurt people, animals and the ecosystem in the process. They say absolute power corrupts absolutely. Well, I'm of the thought that if it becomes illegal to grow anything but genetically modified cannabis, whether it be a glow in the dark marker, the quaint but adeptly named terminator gene, or a "round up ready" strain, well, then fuck em, I'll be an outlaw like my grandfather that souped up hot rods for the moonshiners. The choice should be left to the individual. I am an autonomist after all. Someone above asked about them spraying entire crops. Well I hate to break it to you, but its already been done numerous times. Just look at the opium crops sprayed by the US govt to prevent them ever growing again. Or the fields in Columbia, Brazil, Peru, Bolivia etc. Hell in the 80's the DEA sprayed the entire country of Panama with Paraquat to kill the cannabis plants so they couldnt be shipped to the US. The paraquat caused many local farmers to lose their legitimate crops and caused thousands of people to get sick. Kinda sounds like whats happening in Argentina, no? Food for thought. And for the health concerns of others, this brain food isn't GMO...
Gonna depend mostly on how each State regulates it's market. My guess is if ending Prohibition stalls at the MMJ level Monsanto is a sure thing. If more States move to full legalization it will be less pronounced as States and counties try to protect local economies (Humbolt?) or gather some of the tax revenue micro-groweries produce.
Excellent reply to my questions ,thanks Useless. And this is going directly into my signature as it can be applied to allsorts:thumbsup: >>> >>> I totally hear you with the way you relate the budweiser thing. Over here traditional and innovative micro breweries thrive against the big company pisswater beers. I only drink 2 or 3 types of beer and then i like to cherry pick form some fantastic micro brews.Thats the exact same ways many would react to it on weed terms.Some will likely buy 2 or 3 "brands" of MJ but they will ALWAYS seek out the microbrewer type breeder/grower for their ultimate satisfaction.I hear what your saying there:thumbsup: As for the outlaw comments. This is what the government need to understand aswell .Because there are many movers and shakers like yourself who have been doing this way before it became LEGITIMATE and if the cookie doesnt crumble the right way then im sure many WILL simply revert back to what they know and continue to do what they do if only for themselves and associates. The Govt will want this knowledge on their side regarding the industry and this is why i think they will have to make SOME concessions along the way. Its exciting times even if there is negative issues arising out of it. I guess the best way to sum it up would be ,'if you were told 10 years ago that the weed situation would transpire the way it has in the time it has but the only drawback being the whole big pharm /Monsanto style intrusions.Then im sure you and all others would still have bitten the hands of to simply secure a foothold in an industry you have long championed and long invested your time,money and life into?' Progress is always going to bring these challenges i guess,but its progress none the less and better to have these kind of fights to take on than the old fights of trying to get MJ recognized in any legitimate shape or form. From a Non American looking in it seems that this whole thing just changed rapidly in the last 5 years especially.hen i joined GK it seemed states were going backwards in the other direction while europe was making progress.Hell 5 yars ago in the UK they had decriminalized MJ in trial areas in Lambeth,London.It seemed that MJ was going to go from class C to decriminalized the way it went in Portugal etc. Now fast forward till today and even Holland have went backwards and the UK has now upgraded MJ from class C to class B and still no proper recognition of MJ for medicial use apart from GW Pharms sativex product. USA is now leading the free world in this area and from where i sit it seems California and the emerald triangle,etc now are becoming the main hub for MJ,even in some regards over Amsterdam. The genetics and breeders you guys got out there now are second to none.You guys no longer need look to Holland and drool cos you got it going on bigtime.:icon_salut: Though theres still much work to be done before laurels can ever be rested on,but wow.In 5 years what amazing progress huh Use? I wouldnt say im jealous cos im happy for you guys and as a cog in the GK wheel will continue to highlight and publicize the cause in the hope that eventually what happens over there has a ripple effect all the way back to the UK. Exciting times even if laced with the negativity big busines can bring to the frontier.More power to ya Use. assit:
