Quick Question... maybe? I have lost count of how many grows I have done, but I have been cultivating indoors for over two years now. I am using a 430w SonAgro for flowering and a combination of floros and an HPS 150w for veg. The room stays around 75-80 degrees, with the use of oscilating fans. I am using Peters 20-20-20 for veg and Miracle Grow bloom for flowering. I have tried other ferts including organics, but I find this stuff works almost just the same, but is readily available in my area and pretty cheap. Lately I have been seeing a common "problem", if you want to call it that, among all strains of my plants. The leaves are twisting during flowering. Imagine a fan leaf with the blades turning over, so that the underside of the blade is now facing up. I thought it may be the light being too close, causing heat stress, but after raising the light, it is still occuring. I have not had this problem since just recently and have not changed any of my variables. I did have a problem with mites, which has been cleared up with the help of Neem oil. Any info regarding this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Is it the fan leaves coming out of the growth tips? If so I have had this problem before too, but I am not sure what causes it. Dont worry though because it wont harm your plants.
Twisted leaves has 2 causes. A. Intense light. Is your bulb at least 15"--18" from the plant tops? (You can get closer with air-cooled). B. Nutrient imbalance/overdose. Seeing you nutrients of choice I'd wager this is your problems. The nutrients your using are harsh, and more suited for houseplants and vegatables than mj. Flush your plants, using 3 x the water than the size of the container for example if it's a 1 gal. container use 3 gal./water. And then, if I were you, spend the extra time and $ to get quality nurtrients, from a shop that specializes in mj. You'll get faster growth and max. yield.
Ranger, I should of mentioned that I flushed already, first of all, my light has tempered glass. The distance is between 12"-15" from the tops. I really have a hard time believing that this is because of my choice of fertilizer. If you would have read my post a little better, you might have caught that I've been through this already. I have tried Fox Farms and others. They don't make a difference in yield, so don't argue that. I am pulling 4-5 ozs from a 4' tall plant. I don't think organics can out-do that. In fact, I've tried it, and guess what, it doesn't. I usually fertilize twice, once every two weeks, during flowering with half strength doses. Also, how can you say that it doesn't contain what MJ needs? The last time I checked, NPK, which in case you don't know that means, stands for Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potasium, is the main elements you are adding with fertilizer. Isn't that exactly what MJ needs? Hmmm. I also want to say that organics and chemicals have no difference in taste either. But, that is only if you flush plenty of time before harvest. I know all about this stuff Ranger. I am looking for some real advice. Comeon now. I come here for hard questions, not beginner stuff. I tried explaining to you, that I have been doing this for a while. I want you to think about my question, not just give me the same line you give everyone else. I want people to tell me about their expierences and if someone else has had the same problem. Build itall for free, thanks for the thought, but actually it is some of the larger fan leaves. I have had the same thing with the twisting tops too. (Edited by PlantManager at 9:48 pm on Nov. 4, 2003) (Edited by PlantManager at 9:51 pm on Nov. 4, 2003)
I beleive ranger is right to a certain extent. The MG nutrients are not designed for MJ, and lack some serious Micro nutrients. Not the N-P-K that you metnioned, those are the three major Macro nutrients required by all plants. However, there are 13 known required micro-nutrients required by MJ, that are not necesarrily required by other plants in the same ratios. Therefore, you will fing Miracle Grow is lacking in Magnesium for one...since I dont use it even on my house plants anymore I cant remember what else its short of. You should check its levels of iron and zinc also...those kinda pop to mind for some reason. If you want to use a high quality, MJ specific fert, try Supernatural Brands, or General Hydroponics. If used properly, you will think that it was Miracle Crap you were using. DOnt get me wrong, its an OK product, but it could be better for MJ. If you really like using it, try some epsom salts in the mix, that'll pump up the Mg. for you.
A. Yes I know what N-P-K mean. B. I gave you the best advice I could give. In 36 years of growing, indoors and out, I have used many different fertilizers, both organic and chem. I prefer organics for 3 reasons: It's very heard to overdose, it contains all the micro-nutriuents and trace elements, and the taste is better. I can taste the difference between pot that has been dosed with chem's, even when given a proper flush, and organicly grown pot. If you doubt me that an imbalance/overdose is your problem, simply flush and find out for yourself. I HAVE had a problem with twisted leaves, as have some of my growing friends. The cause in some cases were excessive heat (which you don't have) and the other reason I stated. A proper flush cured the problem. When you ask a question, you might want to listen to the voices of experience, even if the answer is one you don't like. (Edited by rangerdanger at 8:52 pm on Nov. 4, 2003)
and ranger's voice is one of the most experienced ...in case you didn't realize you can learn a bit in 36 years
Try to be more courteous to us growers at GK. Were all here for the same reasons, community and growing. Lets keep it a happy community and give more respect to eachother.
Hey PlantManager, I have no beef for you and have never seen your 5 ounce per 4ft tall plant Harvest... ...but i Have seen alot nice potshots from RangerDanger! I wish i had a pic of his to share with you now-let me tell ya... Let me tell u a tale: What is 2yrs compared to 36yrs? Let'z be honest with each other? Is 2yrs enough time fer you to catch on to all your mistakes(everyone makes mistakes)? And after 2yrs, you're still using Miracle Gro? I've tried Miracle Gro on my first grow like about 99% of you; and have caught on quickly to the truth that Miracle Gro is not specifically designed for Cannabis. I honestly believe that Our Govt. somehow influenced manufacturers to intentionally withold certain Secondary Nutes that are primarily necessary for healthy cannabis crops. For Instance...i am pretty sure that your Miracle Gro does not contain Magnesium/ Sulphur/ or Calcium. Am i right? Why? Becuz our FDA knows that Miracle Gro is only "good enough" to be fed to houseplants. Now the stuff i get is from Canada is Called SuperNatural Brand Fertz. This stuff is Specifically designed for cannabis. It Does include necessary Secondary Nutes & Micro-Nutes. It does not contain "sludge nutes" that contain toxic metals. Very good stuff. You can only get it at your local hydro-store. Personally, i don't think micronutes is an issue with your garden, but a lack of Secondary Nutes jus very well might be! You my Plant Manager friend are in Denial. Don't get mad becuz RangerDanger has decided to pop your bubble(as he has also popped my over-inflated ego.)! But lets not stray too far from the topic. I don't like or dislike you;and would smoke a J with you anyday... ...some of my plants get twisty usually when i transplant them or flush or replace their nutes or what have you. This is their way of adjust/coping to environmental changes or stress. RangerDanger has experienced the "twists" within his garden and only wanted to share his experiences with you....in other wordz...He was only trying to help. Peace fellow growkinders. (Edited by ismoke2much at 9:09 am on Nov. 5, 2003)
Plant Manager.... I also use Peters 20-20-20... Sounds like something has changed within your soil.... Are you buying the cheap garden soil? Change brands perhaps? I have few complaints with peters , but if your soil has any organic ammendments in it (bone meal, worm casings, guano, etc) you may encounter a few probs (severe nute lock)with a 1/2 teaspoon of peters ..... also- someone once told me to put a rusty nail in my soil if I was going to use Peters. Don't remember why, but I've been doing it ever since....Doesn't hurt em (it's my lucky charm!).... I only use a 1/4 teaspoon (same watering schedule though) because I felt the half teaspoon was burning the leaves (I use good soil- 80% Pro mix (without amendments) / 20 % FF plant mix (with amendments). Maybe try a leaching solution (in case of salt buildup) if you want to chance flushing again.. Ranger (and almost everyone else here) has mountains of experience compared to me, but I offer my 2 cents only because I too go against the majority of members here & continue to use Peters. If I could afford FF Grow Big @ $54.95/gal, I would buy it... p.s.-Peters does contain micronutrients (or so they claim) and you can check the link here http://www.homeandgardensolutions.com/products/products-pet-plant-nutr.html or you can read the cut and paste version here: "All plant foods contain some combination of macronutrients and mircronutrients. The three key macronutrients supplied by plant food are nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. The percentage of each nutrient in the plant food is usually listed on the front of the package with three numbers such as 20-20-20. The first number represents the % of nitrogen (N) in the plant food, the second number represents the percentage of phosphorus (P) and the third number represents the percentage of potassium (K – "K" is the chemical symbol for potassium). Together these numbers represent the NPK of the plant food. In the example above, Peters® All Purpose, the NPK is 20-20-20, which means the plant food contains 20% nitrogen, 20% phosphorus and 20% potassium. All plants need all three of theses nutrients to survive. Nitrogen aids plant growth, particularly the green and leafy parts of plants. Phosphorus stimulates rooting and blooming. Potassium helps plants move liquids and maintain turgor pressure, which is the internal pressure that allows plants to stay upright. Potassium is critical to overall plant health. Plants also need micronutrients to thrive. These are nutrients used in small quantities such as copper, magnesium, iron and zinc. Peters Professional® products contain one of the most complete packages of micronutrients. Peters contains magnesium, which is essential to chlorophyll production while other "big name" plant foods don't have it. Peters also chelates all its metallic micronutrients (magnesium, copper, iron and zinc) while other "big name" fertilizers only chelate some of them. Chelation is a process that helps make micronutrients more readily available to plants, so they can take them up and use them more efficiently. Every Peters Professional formula is made with a carefully chosen balance of macronutrients and a full complement of micronutrients so you can be confident your plants are getting the best available nutrition. "
Calcium plays a major role in mj development and assist it from extensive damage due to drought conditions. It makes a plant more robust and sturdy as it does in bone. It is also required for developing but more importantly maintaining healthy foilage and stems. Calcium is also stored in mj for unknown reasons especially during flowering. If memory serves me correctly, neither MG nor Peter's contain this key secondary macronutrient. I remember having to buy calcium pills at the pharmacy and using ph adjusted distilled water, dissolve them and put them in my nutrient mix. I also remember that that stopped the twisting problem I had with my fan leaves. Lowering my potassium levels helped me rectify the "twisting" of new shoot leaves. Hope that helps.
Hey Plantmanager, now that you mention it I do have a few leaves turning over, along with tiger strip leaves on the plant next to it. I read that the yellow stripping or yellowing of the leaf while staying green at the veins is caused by lack of manganese and the leaf turning over is caused by lack of iron. Both these micro nutes are commonly left out of mixes because they are deadly over 1/2 of 1% TDS. I'm giving it a try on my plants, I'll keep you posted. My system is hydro by the way and I'm using vitamins my wife had in the cabinet. (Edited by cyberjunkie at 12:57 am on Nov. 6, 2003)
OK, OK, maybe I went a little overboard. I was having a bad day and I apologize . I agree with everyone's suggestions, including Ranger's. It is nice to have everyones input and experiences and grow from them. I think there is one thing that everyone needs to understand though, Experience in years doesn't mean anything. I think it has to do with what you are exposed to and the knowledge that you take in. Everybody keeps saying, well Ranger's got more experience then everyone. Who cares how many years of experience he has. Even Ranger said that his first few years of growing were spent smoking male leaves before he realized that the female buds were what he was looking for. Just because someone has been doing something for so many years, doesn't mean that they know what the hell they are doing. CLosetGrowth was a firm believer in Peters, which you call a "houseplant fertilizer". I have seen his results and they are amazing. I have flushed again and we will see the results. I am guessing that Ranger is right, but it doesn't mean he always is. I have learned many things in my lifetime from people less "experienced" then myself, in whatever it may be. I am by no means a trouble maker or have an overactive ego, in fact, I spend most of my time on this forum just watching and reading. I was just looking for more then one answer and I apologize for coming off so aggitated. I was just frustrated because I have been through just about everything trying to find a resolution, including flushing. I do have other ferts including General Hydroponics Micro, Grow, Bloom, also some FoxFarms. I also use SuperThrive and Bat Guano through my vegatative and flowering stages. I am by no means closed minded to trying different things. I am telling you this though, I am using what has worked for me and given me results. I am not claiming it is the best fert to use, but it works and is readily available in my area, unlike organics which must be ordered and cost three times as much. I am half way through flowering on this grow and next time, because of you guys, I have decided to try General Hydroponics again. I will be sure to keep you posted. I know you are all hanging on the edges of your seats. Thanks for your insight and no hard feelings Ranger. Peace.
Here is a Garden of mine from last year. I was only able to take pictures up to about day 36. Until my camera stopped working. This was done with Miracle Grow. Ended up with about 3.5 Ozs dry per plant. Just Thought I would share. If you look through the other pics, you will see My General Hydroponics on the shelf in my grow room. Like I said, I'll give her another whirl. Does anybody know the shelf life of these ferts? http://www.growkind.com/marijuanapictures.gk?id=478&picid=3891&start=10&limit=10 (Edited by PlantManager at 1:25 pm on Nov. 6, 2003)
Ranger, no I figured they are pure, accurate in the amount of mineral content which made it easy for me to comlpute how much was safe. These aren't one-a-days, they had just the specific minerals I was looking for. How ever if you have some info, I'm all ears man. Also I haven't seen any results yet (good or bad).
QUOTE , Experience in years doesn't mean anything. I think it has to do with what you are exposed to and the knowledge that you take in. ....had a boss tell me one time,..."Some people have 20 yrs experieince...some only have 1 year...20 times"
Very well put Hicountry2, but in no way am I imp that this is Ranger's case. Some people pick up on things a lot faster then others. The internet, for example, has made me a lot more experienced then a grower without it. And by the way, ismoke2much, I have been growing guerrilla for about 6 years before I bought myself a light. I don't even think Ranger grows indoor. Outdoor and indoor are totally different operations, but they do have similarities. I think anyone who has grown indoor and out can tell you this.
Plant Manager, what do I have to do to get you to quit making assumptions about me? First you assume I'm a beginner and try to explain N-P-K to me, I give the the benefit of my experience with your type of problem and I get ragged on for that, now your saying that I don't know how to grow indoors. You know you're a real drag.
