Ailing Plant Advice

Discussion in 'Pests and Plant Problems' started by Ginsberg, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. Ginsberg

    Ginsberg Developed Alternating Nodes

    This is my second grow. It's progressing a little better than the first, but not by much. Here's some background.

    Seed strain: Unknown

    Soil: Generic pH neutral soil mix w/ vermiculite. No premixed nutes. Added 1tbl. blood meal, 1 tbl. kelp meal 1 tbl. greensand and 2 tbl blood meal per gallon of soil.

    Environment: 250W HPS in grow cab. Ventilation is good. Temp average 70-78F Humidity 30%.

    Feeding/Water: Water as needed. I use rainwater w/pH generally between 6.0-6.5. Let pot dry completely before watering as needed. Added 10 ml Liquid Karma every other watering w occasional tbl molasses. Plant showed vigor and health all through veg stage (3+ weeks) with no additional ferts.

    Within 2-3 weeks of flower plant started to show new growth browning. Buds seemed a little small so I thought maybe P deficiency. At 2 weeks I added Miracle Gro Bloom at ¼ strength (it was all I had on hand) At 3 weeks I added 30 ml ProBlend Bloom w 10 ml Liquid Karma. Problem seems to be accelerating.

    The newer growth leaves are dying from the tips inward although some leave show necrosis in the middle. There is some purpling of the leaf stems, though not all leaves. There are grayish patches, then holes in the middle of older leaves. The newer growth is showing very narrow leaves curled under and inward, especially on the main cola. I don’t see a lot of chlorosis, the leaves brown pretty quickly.

    From my reading I believe that macro nutrient deficiencies show up in the older leaves first while my plant is showing the worst distress in the newer growth. So I’m wondering if I have a micro problem. Also unsure if the ProBlend Pro Bloom for Soil has the trace elements; it doesn’t mention them in the ingredients.

    You can see some photos in my gallery (I hope) Not sure yet how to embed the photos in this thread. All advice is welcome and a ppreciated. This is my only plant and the cupboard is bare. Thanks.

    Edit-- Maybe this should have been in the pests and problems forum. Sorry
     
  2. Guerilla Family

    Guerilla Family Serious Guerilla Farmer

    Hey guy, black text against a black background is a bit tough to read.. try reposting in white
     
  3. skunky

    skunky labor smoke'n lumberjack

    How close is the light the the plant? Just doesn't really look like any type of nute burn and room temps seem fine. Have you checked the pH of the soil or run off? So when you mixed the soil did you add 1tbs of blood meal or bone meal? Really looks like N toxicity and Potassium def.
     
  4. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    This is my stab at it.


    OG Grow FAQ: Potassium (K)


    Potassium is involved in maintaining the water status of the plant and the


    tugor pressure of it's cells and the opening and closing of the stomata. Potassium is required in the accumulation and translocation of carbohydrates. Lack of potassium will reduce yield and quality.


    Potassium deficiency:


    Older leaves are initially chlorotic but soon develop dark necrotic lesions


    (dead tissue). First apparent on the tips and margins of the leaves. Stem and branches may become weak and easily broken, the plant may also stretch. The plant will become susceptible to disease and toxicity. In addition to appearing to look like iron deficiency, the tips of the leaves curl and the edges burn and die.


    Potassium - Too much sodium (Na) displaces K, causing a K deficiency. Sources of high salinity are: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate "pH-up"), too much manure, and the use of water-softening filters (which should not be used). If the problem is Na, flush the soil. K can get locked up from too much Ca or ammonium nitrogen, and possibly cold weather.


    _________________________________________________________________


    Flush with pure H20, then at the next watering flush again. At the third watering introduce a 1/4 strength organic fert mix with a little molasses (1/2-1tbs tbs per gallon). Hopefully this will get you back on track.


    IMHO flushing a couple of waterings and starting fresh is never a bad idea. Even if the initial diagnosis is off your starting from a new baseline and missed issues will get corrected as a byproduct.


    cheers,
     
  5. Ginsberg

    Ginsberg Developed Alternating Nodes

    Guerilla Family: Oops. Should have known better :icon_redface:


    skunky: The lights OK, maybe 3-4 inches. I check and adjust regular, as to heat related issues anyway. I tried misting for a few days wondering if they were just drying out. Soil pH was neutral at planting. I will collect some runoff and recheck. I added tbs each- blood and bone meal.


    Your opinion of N tox and K def strikes me as an astute observation. The leaves were very dark during veg but showed no signs of trouble during that period. Would N tox show up later? My K source was greensand (0-0-0.1) and Kelp meal (1-0-2); relatively low % compared to the other nutes. Whats a good source/amount of K ?- plant is in a 3 gallon pot.


    ResinRubber: Thanks for your perspective. My understanding of flushing is marginal at best. I've read that flushing is unnecessary with organics. Is that true? Except for that brief flirtation w/ Miracle Grow I've kept the nutes natural.


    Thank you all.
     
  6. skunky

    skunky labor smoke'n lumberjack

    Well N toxicity can show up later in flowering if there is too much N in the soil and that can just further the K problem. Probably should have went with a little less blood meal in the mix, I guess. The N needs to be flushed and try supplementing some potash. They should have it at homedepot or some other place next to the bone and blood meal.


    Do like resin said and flush good and maybe look up organic teas and start feeding that way instead of just mixing in the soil. I mean you can still mix your soil up just make it weaker on the veg side of things, don't need a lot of blood meal in the soil for 3 weeks of veg.


    Also, try to avoid combining those other nutes to try and solve the problem they may have only made it worse because now you got all kinda of crap in the soil. Best thing would be to do like resin said and flush. I would flush with a good 3-4x the volume of the pot. I would then make a weak tea of potash and bone meal as a flowering mixture with a little mollasses added.
     
  7. Ginsberg

    Ginsberg Developed Alternating Nodes

    OK, I think I'm getting it. Flush the snot out of it. I'm a little worried on flushing twice . A heavy watering carries me 4 days. A second watering would mean I don't feed until 8 days hence. And I'm already deficient, at least on K, evidently.


    I have looked into the compost teas previously. I'm a little worried about those as well since I haven't yet developed a feel for a balanced feeding recipe or schedule, obviously.


    skunky and ResinRubber: I think you've given me very good advice for which I'm grateful. I've adjusted it to harmonize with my own sensibilities and limitations. I'm going to flush once, heavy. 12 gallons. At the next watering I will feed 1/4 strength ProBlend Bloom simply because it's formulated, seems to be well regarded and because I already have it. I'm hopeful I won't fall right back into the N tox condition. The Botanicare folks advocate feeding every week. Do you have any thoughts or opinions on that?


    Thanks again. Regards.
     
  8. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    Skunk's right on.


    Good luck Ginsberg. You've got some nicely filled out ladies there (Rubinesque if you will). They should yield out pretty well. Let us know how it turns out.


    cheers,
     
  9. fastcompany

    fastcompany Veggy Stage

    Mostly on the top...Still looks like heat stress to me. 3 to 4" is too close for the light. This may be just one of the issues, but I would bet moving the light a little higher would help.
     
  10. skunky

    skunky labor smoke'n lumberjack

    Oh yea and one more thing. You might want to move the light up a few inches. 3" may be a little too close.
     
  11. EvilSkuzzi

    EvilSkuzzi Sweet Guy

    Them leaves are burnt, take the light up!
     
  12. Ginsberg

    Ginsberg Developed Alternating Nodes

    Done, done, and done! That plant is flushed well enough for a colonoscopy (might have to be over 50 to fully appreciate that). The last bucket of flush included a very diluted dose of ProBlend Bloom, Liquid Karma and molasses. Light is now 8-9 inches above plant. I'll post an update in 7-10 days; see how things are working.


    I think now that the light advice is spot on also. I have read that if you can hold your hand at the plant height and not burn then you're OK. Guess not.


    Thanks again for all of your advice. I have a good vibe about this.


    Ginsberg
     
  13. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    Always welcome Ginsberg. I hope it helps.


    Nice to see someone take a common sense approach and use advice as it pertains to THEIR style.


    cheers,
     
  14. Ginsberg

    Ginsberg Developed Alternating Nodes

    Update


    My plant seems much improved and I'm absolutely delighted! As I mentioned, I flushed and gave a 1/4 strength feeding last Sun (1-04). On Wed the pot was very light and I fed 1/2 strength Problend Bloom and Liquid Karma. By Thurs I started to notice some yellowing. I took this as a sign that she's hungry but waited till Sat when the pot was completely dry. Then I fed full strength PBB, LK and Cal-Mag.


    I now see just a little burning at a few leaf tips but overall the vigor seems good. Please see my gallery pics for 1-09 and 1-11. I show the dying fan leaves because I've read that is a natural part of flowering or because those mobile nutes went to new growth when she was hungry. Am I on the right track? There is also some browning at the tips of the little white hairs on one cola . Is this a sign of over fert? It seems difficult to find the right balance.


    One last thing: My plant doesn't smell very strong. Is the aroma an indicator of potency? I'm just entering the 4th week of flower. Thanks again for all your help. I am very happy with the progress of my plant.


    Ginsberg
     
  15. skunky

    skunky labor smoke'n lumberjack

    If you are getting some burnt tips like nute burn just go a little lighter on the feed next time. As for the brown hairs, have you been touching the buds by any chance? The oils on your fingers can cause that too, or low RH, or intense light. And no smell is not an indicator of potency, some strains are fairly low odor.
     
  16. Ginsberg

    Ginsberg Developed Alternating Nodes

    It's always something


    My plant was really looking good for a while. Lately there's some yellowing on the fan leaves which looked like maybe she was hungry. But some of the upper leaves on the colas have that 'ram horn' look which I thought was a sign of overfed. I feed once a week, pH balanced.


    [​IMG]


    This plant is just entering its 6th week of flower, depending on where you start counting. Maybe the yellowing is just part of its life cycle. What do you guys think? I believe I'll end up with a good crop (sooo excited) but I'm still tring to improve my diagnosing skills. Thanks.


    Ginsberg
     
  17. skunky

    skunky labor smoke'n lumberjack

    I count 6th week as day 35-42


    Looks like nitrogen toxicity a little. How long is that strain supposed to go 8-9 weeks? If so by the looks of the pic it is time to start feeding plain water and flushing the soil.
     
  18. Ginsberg

    Ginsberg Developed Alternating Nodes

    Thanks Skunky-- Strains unkown. You've got it pegged time-wise, I think. I'm just starting to see the hairs turn red. So I was going to follow Resins' advice to start flushing at that point.


    Ginsberg
     

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