Are aeroponic systems really the best?

Hey family, hows it growing? I personally am growing a tight SOG in soil right now. It's all good. But the question is... could it be better!? Books boast the merits of hydroponic culture but I have very few friends who have actually tried hydro. Does it really yield more? Does it really take less time to flower?

I was told I could get "the biggest" yield by installing an aeroponic setup. Is this true? I was even told I could get two pounds in one harvest from ten square feet under 600w (with about 40 plants growing in nets mounted on plastic plumbing pipes), which sounds a little too good to be real (the books say one pound more or less if everything is sweet). Has anyone tried aeroponics? How much increase in yield can I expect? (Like duh...) Thanks y'all

 

Hydro allows the plant to absorb nutrients faster, therby creating faster growth. Hydro does not decrease flower time, thats a genetic traight of the plant. Aero allows the fastest nutrient uptake, and therefore produces the fastest growth, but, its also the hardest and most complex method of growing.


2 lBS from a 600W light is an attainable figure, but not by very many people. Usually you want to shoot for about 1G per watt every 60 days. Thats a nice figure. If you make it over 1.5 G per watt, let me know what you're doing!

 

I think you should check out the Bubbler Hydro Method!  I really can't think of a simpler system than that...plus it's still hydro("workin water")...so how can u grow wrong?


Hydro is basically Hydro...so why choose the most complicated form(Aeroponics)?


But no matter what system you choose...i think the yield will be more dependant on Your Light Size; type of Nutes your giving it;and as Useless pointed out...Genetics!! I've seen some excellent Organic Soil Strains in this Forum that could possibly outgrow the best Hydrosystemz! Genetics is Everything!


Hydro is Hydro no matter what system u use.  The Only Major Diffrences in each hydro method that i've researched- is in the amount of "air roots" and "feeder roots" your plants devolop(dependant on your system). The more "air roots" the better health your plants will be overall. The more feeder roots a plant has;the faster it will grow. Each hydro system will have a diffrent "air root" to "feeder root" Ratio...or vice versa:


1)aeroponics-rely heavily on "air roots" and timers;it's job is to absorb Oxygen. Most roots dedicated to "air roots" than "feeder roots"; so personally i don't think it's the fastest growin hydro method. Highest "air root" to "feeder root" Ratio. High Margin for error becuz the spray valves are prone to clogging.Hardest system to Maintain.!


2)Ebb n Flow-also relies heavily on "air roots" and timers; that'z why it'z called flood n drain. U must drain the flood table to allow the "air roots" to function properly. A good "air root" to "feeder root" Ratio. Since it uses waterpump timers;this setup is more reliable than NFT(continuous feed waterpump no timer);especially durin a blackout! Excellent system for Commercial Growers.I believe that the Ebb n Flo Hydro method ranks as the most widely used Commercial hydro method. I think NFT hydro methods ranks 2nd! Very reliable system.


3)Bubblers-still rely on "air roots"; with bubblers;only 1 inch or less of the hydropot/corn is submerged.I'm not sure-but i think re-circulating bubblers also rely on timers.  Air roots are allowed to grow within the Hydrocorn. Has a higher "feeder root" to "air root" Ratio. Great for the homegrower;but too Difficult to maintain for commercial growers. Simplest system to maintain!


4)NFT(nutrient film technique)-relyz the least on "air roots" and requires No Timer. Most of its root mass is dedicated to feeding;hence they feed all the time.But unfortunately- NFT has the highest margin fer error unless you know what you're doin!!! Since this system provides the least amount of air roots...it'z not for the Novice Hydrogrower.  That'z why i recommend you try the Bubbler method first!  Hands Down-the NFT method has the Highest "feeder root" to "air root" ratio!!!  This is why i prefer the NFT system over any other! When tuned properly...this NFT system has the potential to Out Yield every other system(including Aeroponics!).Great for both the Commercial and HomeGrower!! Another flaw in this system is that it requires more water than the other methods. And since the waterpump has no timer;it'z also more prone to failure.


Note:NFT hydro is the 2nd most commonly used hydrosystem for commercial growers(tomatoes and such...) in the World! That'z becuz it outyields any other typed of commercial plantation; and it'z virtually maintenance free! I luv my custom built NFT!!!


I chose an "inbetween hydro system"...that'z a cross inbetween NFT and the Recirculating Bubbler Hydro method and even possibly itz part Ebb n Flow as well. It'z like an ebb n flo table;except the waterpump alwayz remain ON;so they feed more often than ebb n flo'z! Mine is basically like one Giant Bubbler NFT Table/Tub(20" x 40" long) filled with hydropots/corn to promote "air roots"(i don't use a feeder mat) that currently holds 7 female bloomerz connected to one re-circulating reservoir...plus i implement a 50/50 Blend of chemz(base formula) and Bat Guano(Amendments)! I have provided an excellent "air roots" and "feeder roots" environment!


Every system have their strengths and weaknesses. And i know alot of u guyz won't agree with me here...but i'm just one opinion against so many...so don't get too offended please...hehe...jus my 2centz is all...


(Edited by hellostupid at 10:09 am on Sep. 10, 2003)

 

Thanks for ur time and for that killer answer, Stupid u da man!!!!!


I totally feel ur "feeder root" "air root" schematic it kicks ass and i understand ur messageepending on my means and conditions i can customize a hydro system that would be good for my needs.In that case i am looking for PRODUCTION so i would have to do some research but from what i understand, i need a high "air root" ratio.Aeroponics, from what i have seen has a very high high "air root" ratio since only the tip of the roots is dippin in the solution.


That info was funkdamental and i thank u again guys. If anyone could give more info like that it would be great!

 

You're right on Target simpleminded wiseguy...it's all about Air Roots.  


Air Rootz are the ones with all the Fuzzy hairs on 'em...since you grow in Soil...then u know exactly what i'm talking about.


The Most Amazing thing 'bout air roots-iz their ability to literally capture oxygen from the Air!!! That'z the next best thing to lungz!!!  If cannabis was a fish...it would be a lungfish.


Feeder Roots(Water/Tap)- are much stronger and thicker and much more visible in hydro for obvious reasons.  Tha catch is this-feeder roots don't "feed" unless they recieve enough oxygen from the water...


Oxygen exists in only 2 places:


1)In the Atmosphere(air roots)-for those fuzzy air roots to flourish...the humidity Must be 100%; as inside a pot of hydrocorn.


2)From the Water(feeder roots): if your water is properly oxygenated(25ppm or higher)...than your plants rely Less on Air Roots...and get their oxygen from feeder roots. But the warmer your water;the less oxygen that it can hold-so there's a fine line you'll be walking on if u implement the NFT hydro method. The sole reason i believe cannabis grow faster in hydro becuz plants simply have more feeder roots in hydro environments!!!


For safety measures(i also only use dual air pumps fer my airstones!)...thatz why i believe that All hydrogrowers should take advantage of hydrocorn!


Hydrocorn will ensure that your plants can get their proper dosage of oxygen from the Air & Water...so nft and hydrocorn i feel provides the best of both worlds(the hydrosystem i currently operated now!)


Well thanx fer reading my long-winded posts...but i type pretty fast...so that explains everything doesn't it...hehe...


...happy growin bros...


Conclusion:  Root Mass shall alwayz dictate the overall health of the Canopy. Cannabis follow this one overlooked phenonenon-Root Mass must Alwayz equal Canopy Mass(RM = CM phenomenon).This is another reason why pruning delays growth-when u prune...the Root/Canopy Equilibrium Equation looses itz Balance. Once Canopy size slowly growz back to equal Root Mass...The Exponential Growth Spurt shall immediately Return to both sides of your Root/Canopy Equation(aka,"harmony" or "serendipity"!)


That'z why bigger pots are better. The larger your root mass extends...the bigger your Canopy can branch!!!  Growers should do everything they can to promote More Root Mass!


Note:all this information did not originate from me...it'z merely regurjitated(i can't spell)...i'm too "stupid" to come up with stuff..hehe...


(Edited by hellostupid at 10:04 am on Sep. 10, 2003)

 

I like people that speak the direct, straight to the fact info. Thanks again stupid.Could u explain hydrocorn?


keep'em coming u boyz r saving me a whole lot of reading!

 

Hydrocorn is another term for Clay Pellets...sorry.

 

I have to disagree with you, HelloStupid, that NFT if tuned properly will yield more than Aero. It has been well researched that plant yield is directly proportional to total root mass whether it be feeder roots or air roots. It has also been well documented that the aero process induces the most amount of total root mass because of the enormous amount of Oxygen introduced to the rooting system. A very well tuned NFT system with artificial Oxygen induction into the nutrient resevoir at 20 degree centigrade and with no other gas present, can hold a maximum of 3% Oxygen. This number decreases substantially as your nutrient temperature increases. At 30 degrees centigrade (the normal temperature of a flowering room) your nutrient solution can hold no more than 1% Oxygen. That means at most the roots can only absorb between 1 - 3 percent oxygen as that is all that is present in the nutrient solution. This is an important fact to know as the symbiotic osmosis process of roots absorbing water (nutrients included) rely heavily on the presence of Oxygen in the root zone. The more oxygen that is available to the roots the more it can absorb metabolically hence the more it can grow (Roots, foilage, stalk etc...) With the aero process the roots are suspended in air fed by gentle mistings of the nutrient solution very frequently to prevent them from drying out. Similar to traditional hydro methods, the plants theoretically have all nutrients they want. Unlike traditional hydro methods, the roots spend their time in an environment (normal air) with oxygen levels of about 12% - 15%. This is an increase of about 400% to 500% the oxygen levels above the most well tuned NFT setup and without the aid of artificial gas injection. What this all boils down to is that a plant's growth WILL be accelerated dramatically using an aero setup over any other setup on the market to date. Most people who grows aero setups use the "sea of green" technique. Their cloning time is approximately 1 week and their vegging time is also reduced to 1 week. Their flowering time is still the same as any other method as this is a factor of plant genectics. The aero process does not accelerate the flowering time by no means of the imagination but it does shorten the overall time it takes to see a harvest from start to finish.


There are limiting factors when growing with the aero setup however. Don't think that an aero setup by itself will increase yields by hundreds of percents. A grower must tune the system with CO2 as well as adequate lighting and stable temperatures in conjunction with the aero setup. Failure to do this will retard a plant's growth in a number of different ways each giving the same result, a less than maximum yield. An anology of this would be a Porsche, Viper, Ferrari, and a Corvette all in line behind one another on the autobahn. Individually they can each attain 150 mph easily. But all the vehicles mentioned are driving behind a beat up Chevette that can max out at 50 mph. The result will be that each of these exotic cars, with all their torque and horsepower, can only go as fast as the Chevette and will never reach the maximum speeds they were designed for.


The potential for the aero setup to outproduce any other growing method is well documented even by NASA. That is the process they use in space to test and grow plants for both food and oxygen in space. But as mentioned aero is an entire system and not just one particular method.


I do agree with you Stupid, that aero is very finicky and requires a lot of expertise. It is by far the most intricate, expensive and complicated system to set up. It is definately not for the weak of heart and novices.


For every pro there must be a con. As fast as plants grow in aero setups they have the potential to die just as fast. Imagine su'pping up a car to do quarter mile in under 6 seconds. The potential of blowing a motor or tranny or something dibilitating is greater than the same car at normal factory settings. I have experienced and seen great thriving gardens die in under 4 hours when something went wrong ie. nutrient problems.


Take caution when exploring aero setups as lessons are very costly here.

 

Like the car analogies Smurfy...


What u r sayin does not really contradict what stupid is saying but i understand the emphasis on Aero being a WHOLE system in which all factors must be reconsidered...So u r positive about aero being da bomb that's what i have been hearing!I have seen the roots on plants in aero, it is very impressive the way they grow when they are suspended. A whole lot of "air roots" Stupid...Thanks smurfy, u da double o agent with the data LOL...Keep'em comming!!

 

I see that we both have been doin' a lot of research now haven't we Smurfy007?  Wow...i commend u...very impressive perspective.


Although u put up a very good argument,i still doubt the gains could ever justify the meanz.  An unjustifiable gain fer all the troubles that come with Aeroponics.  Here's my take on The Aeroponic is Top Gun Debate:


1)It has been well researched that plant yield is directly proportional to total root mass whether it be feeder roots or air roots.  


No argument with you there...the larger your root mass...the bigger your yield shall be.


2)A very well tuned NFT system with artificial Oxygen induction into the nutrient resevoir at 20 degree centigrade and with no other gas present, can hold a maximum of 3% Oxygen


I couldn't agree with you more...but-cannabis only require 25ppm of Saturated Oxygen to thrive. The max that NFT can hold is 3% Oxygen. But did you know that 3% iz equivalent to 30ppm of Saturated Oxygen per Gallon? Furthermore, AirStones isn't the Only way to Aerate a Nutrient Reservoir. For instance:   CFT-cascading film techique;where a "waterfall" is incorporated into a traditional NFT setup. Another is using an Oscillating Fan to blow across the  Water Surface(believe me,it workz). Another is HydrogenPeroxide. Yet still another-there'z Clay Pelletz to promote air roots. Incidently,  I've been know to use all 5 weaponz at my disposal! I like to cover all my bases heheh!!!


3)Unlike traditional hydro methods, the roots spend their time in an environment (normal air) with oxygen levels of about 12% - 15%.  This is an increase of about 400% to 500%  the oxygen levels above the most well tuned NFT setup and without the aid of artificial gas injection.


I will accept your claims as factual fer now...but how true really is it? Can you explain why timers are necessary? The only system that doesn't require timers are Non-recirculating Bubblers and NFT. Timers limit feeding potential. Timerless hydro setupz  never stop feeding! Aeroclonerz require timers...and feed fastest when the timers are on...but it doesn't remain on...now why is that? Personally, anythin that dealz with timers are only Hydrofed on a part-time basis! Nftz and bubblers-they feed All the Time!


4)An anology of this would be a Porsche, Viper, Ferrari, and a Corvette all in line behind one another on the autobahn.  Individually they can each attain 150 mph easily.  But all the vehicles mentioned are driving behind a beat up Chevette that can max out at 50 mph.  The result will be that each of these exotic cars, with all their torque and horsepower, can only go as fast as the Chevette and will never reach the maximum speeds they were designed for


I don't think that Co2 is the the real "Chevette" in this situation...becuz Aeroponic Timerz are the Real Culprit/Chevette!


Let me and you have a race to the finish line shall we? U can be the Porsche Aeroponic Hydro. I will be the slow Chevette NFT hydro.  Here's the catch:


a)Your Aeroponic Porsche is limited with a Timer. Let'z call that Timer , "Stoplight"...how's that?


b)My NFT Chevette is not restricted by a Timer/Stoplight-it'z nuthin but all highway for this speed limit nft beat-up chevette of mine.


c)Let's assume that we both must obey the Speed limit-this speed limit can be anything-Co2 limitations,Light Wattage,etc. But you see, you have an Extra speed limitation-your timer/stoplight.  Your aeroponic porsche must stop for 30minutes at every Stoplight that your timer turns red!  So that means your aeroponic porsche has the ability to accelerate to 150ppm "per hr" compared to my NFT'z slow cruising speed of merely 30ppm "per hour"!!!!  Yes...i admit that it'z a very tuff call! To me, we are 2 cars drivin thru a "shool zone"(speed limit/timer/co2/stoplightz).your's jus happen to be a porsche with more "rev power"!!!


d)Who would make it first across da  Finish line? Who really knows fer sure...I'll let you guyz decide!


5)Turtle n Hare analogy- NFT can be viewed as a Turtle; and the Aeroponic can be labelled as the Hare...and we Both know the ending to that story...


6)NFT is cheaper and more reliable-you can't argue with me there. NFT are more cost effective and easier to maintain. Occams Law-simpler is alwayz better. Why do i need a sledgehammer when a hammer will work jus fine? And how many commercial farmers actually implement Aeroponics even though it's a Porsche? Maybe becuz of the higher insurance rates on them aeroponic sportcars...


7)The potential for the aero setup to outproduce any other growing method is well documented even by NASA.  That is the process they use in space to test and grow plants for both food and oxygen in space.


I will agree with you to a point.  There is no gravity in space. For obvious reasons-i could see why gravity dependant NFT systems would easily lose...in outerspace! Yes-it does hurt me to realize that NFT hydro is earthbound...so i'll be sure to tell my grandkidz to not ever use NFT hydro on spacestations thanx...





Conclusion:Yes i must admit. I am very biased...since i implement the NFT hydromethod myself. I just can't see how replacing my NFT with Aeroponics can be justified unless it really does dramatically outyield NFT systems like you claim/believe.  Although Aeroponics offer many appealing strengths...aeroponics is also shaded by it's other weaknesses(high cost/high maintenance). But i respect your views and found your post quite Interesting...don't get me wrong.  I mean, i've been known to be wrong before;so why not now.  But what it boils down to...iz that every system has it's strengths and weaknesses...just like you've mentioned(pros/cons).  But i believe that CFT(cascading film technique) is a Cross inbetween NFT x Aeroponics...which is the only technique that i feel can outperform NFT setups(becuz CFT are used with BOG style of SCROGGING-a very advanced concept!). I would like to build a BOG/CFT style growchamber someday!


Yes Smurfy007 that you've done an excellent job pointin' out the many outstanding strengths that aeroponics have to offer to the hydro community in your post and so i must thank you Smurfy007!!! Awsome post!!!


(Edited by hellostupid at 4:45 pm on Sep. 11, 2003)

 

U guys r really great!But stupid, Aren't the tips of the roots always dipped in the solution in aero? So timer or no timer for the sprayers is not in issue because it is permenantly feeding! And aero does produce the most roots as u said...Lets say cost and maintenance is not a problem. Stupid i do understand that to trade ur NFT system, which seems very fine and researched by the way, for an aero one would seem like a whole lot of trouble for little difference but i am growing in soil now and my objective is wheight over anything else.I am willing to go all the way to get going the way it should be going! So more advice u genius gardeners?LoL...

 

Hello everyone, and let me first begin by saying I didn't mean to bash anyone or any methods of growing. Any growing method capable of producing good herb is certainly alright by me. The post by "stupid" on NFT method was really done well. I know for a fact that the NFT method when setup properly can be very effective and produce amazingly high quality herb. I wrote the post because I felt there were many unanswered questions about the aeroponics process as well as much misunderstanding towards it. I only hope I can help some of you out there understand this cumbersome beast a little better before you spend thousands of dollars on testing only to find out you need thousands of dollars of other "sidekick" equipment to make it work. I again urge all novices and intermediate growers not to try this method of growing unless you really know most strains of MJ like the back of your hand or you have a wackload of excess money to waste because you are a relative of Bill Gates heehee.


I wrote the post in the wee morning hours buzzed so it may seem a little fragmented and confusing. I will try to clear up some of points I made and welcome any further questions on the matter.


1) In the regards to O2 levels and how much is needed in the root zone to thrive "stupid" is quite correct in that MJ requires about 20-40 ppm to thrive. However, I have not yet come across any data (PM me if you have this data please) stating how much O2 is too much in the root zone. That is at what point does O2 become ineffective and becomes a waste of time and money. Is it 10%, 20%, 50%, 90%. I have looked for that answer for a long time now and have searched many horticulture archives but have yielded no answers. What I did find is that all anaerobic plants including MJ thrive at high levels of O2. I also remember this from University. The higher the level of O2 present in the root zone the more readily nutrient uptake occurs. The more nutrient uptake together with adequate conditions, the more sugars are produced and stored. The more sugars that are stored, the more roots can be manufactured. This process along with osmosis is a very complicated procedure that occurs on a microscopic level. (Post secondary school courses on horticulture, chemo-biology and or chemistry for biological sciences could explain this process a hell of a lot better than I can since it's been past 12 years since I last stepped foot in a classroom hehehe) Extensive tests conducted at the University of California as well as the University of British Columbia in the last two decades have included demonstrations of plants (NOT neccessarily MJ) had their roots grow up to 50% faster than conventional known methods when the O2 levels were set as high as 20%. Why the research of O2 levels stopped there is a question I cannot answer however, I'm sure there are many other institutions out there that has taken the O2 levels beyond that point. What I gather from this is that the more O2 present the more productive the yield hence the better off you are. Personally, I am my biggest nemises as I would not settle for 7% O2 if I can achieve 10% and I'm sure there are many of you out there that subscribes to this as well. I will always try to out do myself just for the sake of experience and to know that I CAN do it. For this reason I, like "stupid" recommend incorporating things such as H2O2 and clay pellets (Hydroton) into water culture systems.


2) Timer's are neccessary to regulate the misting schedule. These timers are not your traditional timers where you set a day and time to facilitate your feeding schedule. These timers generally are solid state cyclic timers which incorporate a photo sensing device for night mode. A grower needs to set the durational on time usually from 15 seconds to 6 hours as well as a durational off time or the time in between mistings. There are no days or programs to set. This may seem a little confusing for some of you so I'll give you one example of a vegging routine. When the lights go on, the photo sensing device instantly triggers a high pressure low volume pump to mist the roots, via atomizing misters, for 45 seconds. This mist usually consists of water droplets 30 to 50 microns in diameter. (very similar to a morning fog) The timer then shuts the pump down and waits for 20 minutes and does the 45 seconds misting again. It does this routine all during the photo period every day irregardless od the day. When the lights go off the photo sensing device tells the timer to switch to night mode and a different routine may be used if the grower prefers. Keep in mind when the roots are fed and moistened they are not flooded by water, instead they are misted onto the roots and the root growing environment. Even if the droplets come straight from the misters and onto the actual root this does not flood and drown the roots since there is space, distance and air in between the individual droplets striking the root. The end result is that the roots spend most of their time in O2 enriched fog and during the misting schedule of appx 45 secs/20 mins they enjoy a very rich blend of oxygenated nutrient solution delivered to them.(similar to a water surface with a bubbler except much higher in O2 levels since the droplets are so much finer than air bubbles)


This is what I meant in my earlier posting when I wrote;


"Unlike traditional hydro methods, the roots spend their time in an environment (normal air) with oxygen levels of about 12% - 15%"


Now the frequent mistings themselves are not actually what a grower wants to use to feed the roots. Ideally, the nutrient enriched fog caused by this fine misting is what a grower wants to feed the actual roots with. The mistings are only meant to replenish the fog after it is either consumed by the roots or have settled down due to gravity. Comparatively speaking, the roots receive the least amount of O2 during the mistings and the most amount of O2 during the fog times. Even during the misting period, the roots still receive more O2 than any other method because of the droplet size. In a good growing environment, the grower MUST set up the mistings accordingly so that there always exist a fog of nutrients in the root growing chamber in order to drive the root growth to it's maximum potential. This does not mean however that if no fog exists then there is no nutrient available to the plant. The feeder roots (thick long sturdy ones) resides at the bottom of the root growing chamber surface and absorb the droplets that have settled down. That is their job; to collect water. As pointed out by "stupid" in a sense the cyclic timer as well as the pump hence may be viewed as limiting factors to the nutrient delivery system since if either one malfunctions irrepairable damage to the intricate rooting system may occur. But this can happen to any hydro system that utilizes pumps and timers or a combination of both.


3) In regards to CO2, I didn't mean that it had to be the limiting factor (the chevette in my ananolgy). That was just a metaphor I chose and CO2 was the example. The chevette in any case may prove to be a number of things including but not limited to inadequate lighting, poor room air circulation, over fertilization, under fertilization, room temperature......the list goes on and on and on and on. I just wanted to point out here how cumbersome and technical the aero process really was and to bring awareness to the fact that by purchasing or building an aero setup alone WILL NOT give you any spectacular yields over conventional growing methods. (This is for real now) I have seen growers more productive using dirt than growers using aero because these aero growers falsely believed that their high priced purchase was a miracle cure and didn't fully understand the art of growing.


I hope to have carified things a bit more for you guys and made for some interesting reading material.


I respect and agree with "stupid" and many other growers that aero IS NOT the best system out there since best means convience, economical, and ease of understandment. However, aeroponics done right does in fact out yield any process and methods to date theoretically as well as pragmatically. Believe it or not the proof is in the independant researches by hundreds of institutions in dozens of countries over two decades. In an off-note although Singapore did not invent the aeroponics method the government there certainly have spent enough dollars and resources perfecting it. To date I believe they are the only country whose government has invested in private companies producing the worlds largest aeroponics commercial farms. They are also one of the world's foremost leading authorities in on the subject.


For all those interested in the Singapore farm here is a link. (I hope posting this link is alright, if not I'm sorry everyone for posting it.)





In" target="_blank">http://www.aerogreen.com.sg/


In the meantime, keep tokin and less fighting everywhere.


Those are mine two cents not yours.

 

thank u smurfy it is very clear exept the part about the fancy timers...I don't think u need photo sensitive thingies since u control the time of when they are on or off and thus setting the misting timer accordingly.Am I wrong, is there something i don't understand? Are the tips of the roots always dipped in the solution?Thanks for answering me!


Keep up the library hours LoL...

 

That link u posted has no info on the system itself...They are selling juice..Imagin how much dank u could grow in there!!!!!

 

Thanx Smurfy007...your last post cleared alot of misconceptions i had 'bout Aeroponics.


I can finally/honestly agree with you that the best Aeroponic system that'z finely tuned can probably spank the livin daylights outta the best NFT.


And about me bein offended...quite the contrary! I wish there were more growkinders like you to shed light on the matter! You've taught me alot about aeroponics. I only use NFT, so my knowledge is limited.


And simpleminded guy, i believe that Smurfy007 did answer your question to whether the Tap/Feeder Roots Tips touch the Nute Solution.  If the Tap/Feeder Roots really do remain saturated in Nutez indefinitely...then there's no doubt in my mind that the Plants are Alwayz feeding;jus like Bubblerz/NFT'z do!!! So with that in mind than yeah-i guess like Smurfy007 explained more fully, Aeroponic hydro do in fact feed all the time...Wow!!!  Aeroponics is very similar to CFT(cascading film technique):


1)CFT(cascading film technique)-misterz and timers are also used...jus like aeroponics.  The pumps mist the roots; and then the run water cascades/trickles down the suspended roots.


2)CFT-Much like "gravity" aeroponics.


3)CFT-misting also has to be jus right...jus like in aeroponics.  The smaller the droplets..the better. I hear that the latest contraption for hydro is the "fog machine"...which takes aeroponics to the next level


4)CFT BOG style grows -is like BOG(box of green) but on a larger scale/higher level.  U can BOG jus one plant and with one 70watt HPS. The plant actually grows into the shape of the Box...trapping all the radiated light! Light efficiency at its finest!  CFT takes advantage of Gravity to Oxygenate/Feed the Root Mass. Elevated Plants have much more room to grow than NFT systems-and we all know that Bigger Root Mass = Bigger Yields. But the problem with CFT BOG is the you need a minimum of 4'x4'x6' high Space to do it right. I'm still a closet grower(2'x4')...so i think i'm missin' out on where the future of hydro is headed---Big Time!


All this talk makes me wanna build a CFT BOG now...hehe...damn i wish i had more room!


It'z comforting to know that  regular growers like us can reap the benefits of the Millions of $$$ spent by other Researchers for the sake of horticultural science..hehe...


If i came off sounding like an ******* Smurfy007...my apologies.  I just like to keep it light and throw a little humour in da mix iz all...hehe...i live for debates...trust me...


Yep, i'd like to build an aeroponic/CFT hydrochamber someday...and your post has definitely help me see the light Smurfy007...much props to you bros...


...cuz it sounds like you've had extensive experience with Aeroponics...and to me....experience is Everything!!!


Happy Growin simplemindedguy and smurfy007...i'm glad to have "debated" with you...becuz i've  actually learned alot from this thread...and i never get tired of learning


...


Conclusion:the real debate is not about aeroponics vs NFT here. The Real Debate is which system grow the Biggest Root Mass and Oxygenate the Root Mass best!!!  An to me CFT (cascading film technique) might just integrate the best of both worlds(an aeroponic/NFT wedding!)


(Edited by hellostupid at 9:04 am on Sep. 12, 2003)

 

Hi guys, glad you like the thread.


In response to your question "simple" are the fancy timers with photo-sensing options really needed.


To understand why a photo-sensing device integrated into a cyclic timer is important you have to understand how root mass is manufactured. MJ is a anaerobic plant. What this means is that during the photo period, the plant will absorb nutrients and water. This explanation to follow only applies to anaerobic plants. Now nutrients consists of many items not just fertilizers. Lumens from the light, CO2 and minerals all fall into the nutrient category. During a regular photo period (when lights are on) the plant will absorb the nutrients that a growing environment provides. The chlorophyl within the leaves converts all the received nutrients into sugars so that the plant can utilize it. These sugars are the fuel needed by the plant to run the building factory that manufactures leaves, stalk, roots, etc...Generally speaking, in a well growing environment and a healthy plant, the plant will almost always produce more sugars than needed during the photo period. The excess sugar is stored in the root area during the photo period and utilized during the non-photo periods. The more roots you have the more sugars the plant can store. Very much like a battery; the bigger the battery the more amperage it can store. During the non-photo period very little is absorbed by the plant including water. This is why a plant wilts when the lights are off. Roots are mainly produced during the non-photo periods. In a sense, the plant never rests as it produces foilage and top growth during the day and bottom growth during the night. The excess sugars stored in the roots are utilized during the nights to manufacture more roots to prepare for the next working day. (I detect a 24/7 sweat shop going on here. In fact I seem to notice that the roots look alot like asians and mexicans LOL hehe). Where and how the root grows is determined by two factors


a: where the air zone deficiencies are located is where more air roots grow


b: where the water zone deficiencies are located is where tap roots grow


What this means is wherever the plant "feels" there is a need for more roots there more roots will grow.


That is how the rooting system is developed. The reason why root mass is directly related to yield mass is because of the stored sugars. During flowering, the plant "knows" it's time is almost up so it has to create the best looking flowers to attract insects and animals for pollination. Besides utilizing the stored sugars to manufacture roots, it also utilizes the stored sugars to manufacture our most favourite thing; BUDS. The more roots the more stored sugars resulting in more energy for producing BUDS. (AAhhhh Buddds).


All that is fine and dandy but what the heck does that have to do with those fancy cyclic timers and the photo-sensing whatchamacallits? The reason why a grower may prefer to set a different schedule for mistings during the night is to encourage root growth. If there is ample water all around the rooting system then why bother growing new roots to look for water. If it ain't broken don't fix it. When the photo-period is off the plant does not transpire the water from root to foilage hence there is an excess of water in the root growing chamber if the misting schedule is not adjusted. Excess water during the nights means lazy plants. Why does one need to get up and go to the fridge to get a beer when the fridge is in front of you.


It should be noted that the photo-sensing device is not a requirement to growing aero. It is just another one of those options that makes up the fully loaded package that max's the method.


I hope I answered your question as to the function of the photo-sensing feature.


The explanation above is a horribly over simplified explanation of how the plant behaves during photo and non-photo periods. For all you experts out there, please do not knit pick at every detail that was written in this post as I am not concerned with teaching Biological sciences 101 in its entirety. I only wanted to convey the general concept of why a grower might desire the ability to set a different misting schedule for non-photo periods.

 

The site I posted is for a commercial farm using the aero method located in Singapore. And yes "simple" it contains no information on the aero process or aero equipment; only a demonstration of how the aero systems are implemented. I try not to post links to sales sites as I am an educator not a salesman.

 

Glad we are heading into the same area "stupid", self improvement. I like the NFT method very much and used it for a number of years before I tested aero. Why I changed over was because of limitations I encountered plus my own obsession with gagets and automation. With the current setup, I can go on vacation for about a week with no worries hehehe.

 

So Smurfy007; you're tellin my that Cannabis is a Carrot? The bigger the Carrot;the bigger the Budz?


I honestly never thought of Cannabis that way...


(Edited by hellostupid at 8:18 pm on Sep. 13, 2003)

 

Besides oregano, I did kinda detect a hint of carrot in my first joint I think. hehehehe