Defoliation

I love this discussion. It is very much of interest to me.

I appreciate the thread Dumme. All I can ad is this: most of my runs are done with little or no control over a wide variety of factors that impact yield. I change minor things almost every run, and gave up recording them all early on. I am just not set up to do controlled experiments growing cannabis, such that I can isolate what is causing the outcome to change. One thing that changes a good deal is the overall size of the plant when I flip, which def impacts yield. If I was dealing with a single plant it might be easier, but a crop is hard to get uniform in just one single run, let alone two in a row. Hell I can't even get the same number of plants to go into each run, and you know I'm always gunning for the most I possibly can fit.

I have defoliated entire crops before and I did get a good yield. I have NOT defoliated and had to throw into the hash bag lots of shaded underdeveloped, undersized popcorn buds. But that is anecdotal, which is not terribly reliable.

My opinion is to get the highest yield one should employ a number of training techniques. Topping, LST, tucking and defoliating are all tools in the bag, and useful at times. For example I know damn well that when a tall stalk shoots up past all it's neighbors and sends out those mega fan leaves that hogs all the light, a few things are going on: I have to raise the light to avoid roaching the top, but this leaves the majority of the rest of the plant too far from the light for optimum PAR. Cutting off the fans will allow light to penetrate better, but also LSTing or topping the tall stalk is just as important because even if the lights gets through if its too far away you did no good.

 

Now i'm torn between referring to myself as a Defoliator or a Schwazzeator... I do know if i posted pics of my schwazzeated plants i'd be called a braggart.. I think i'll go along with what most of my friends call me, Special...

 

Time for me to chime in guys. First I want to welcome Dumme to Growkind.
I have to agree with Disco that Ed and Jorge are a little outdated in some aspects as far as newer grow techniques go. They are good at what they do but need to change with the times.
I'm still finishing up a Horticulture cannabis specialist course that George teaches. He is a big no leaf defoliation grower and would freak out for removing fan leaves to increase flower production.
I believe you are quoiting the book Three A Light? That book teaches defoliation at the start of flower and defoliating again at three weeks into flower.
I've not read the book myself but I think It covers the basic grow info with the newer grow info explained. So it may sound contradicting disco if you have not read the whole book.
I'm going to enjoy this discussion.

 

So I realize now that I'm too new to GK to have any real credibility or respect yet, and I apologize if I'm stepping on anyone's views of growing.

My gardent has been under construction for 2 years now. It's slow going due to time, money, and health issues. I've had a few back surgeries, and have a hard time working for any length of time. It's a rebuild on the ashes of a multi-floor garden seen in the video below:



I started with a rebuild due to some design flaws. I wanted the entire system on one floor of my building, so I hired some help, seen in the videos below. The basement once was an old bar in the 1900's, and was completely run down. It was a ton of work.





Later I rebuilt the fishtank in concrete



My grow style is an unusual one, bring I grow using the combination of aeroponics and soil.



I've gotten some mixed reviews on this idea. A lot of people think it'd be too wet to grow, but I find it works very well in my system.

I was trying to get a new up-to-date video together for you guys, but I guess that will have to wait for a couple of days. I'll probably be starting a running journal, in the organics section.

So, this is my temporary Aeroponic-soil Veg room.

 

...continued

My flower room is sleeping currently, so I couldn't get any good photos, but here is one of my last grow a couple of weeks before harvest.

...and a video of the yield witha 300watt COB, for about 1.45gpw :

 

Here's an (more) updated video of the Tank/Filter room:


...and how it looks now:

 

Yes, I've been writing a number of papers on many topics, normally heavily debated topics. lol
Thank you for the warm welcome. I'm happy to be here, as long as the guys can put up with my unusual ideas of growing.

I find that there's a ton of slang in the cannabis world. By "bud site" I'm presuming you mean "cola(s)", which would again be many small flowers and leaves mix together on one stem. A "bud" in this case, by definition, is a compact knoblike growth on a plant that develops into a leaf, flower, or shoot. Again, I understand the confusion as cannabis hasn't been in the main stream for that long, and slang kinda took over.

Yes, its called "relative osmotic location". It's also important to understand that all leaves work as a collective, and are not specific to the bud their next to. If you cut the lower leaves (lollipoping), but leave the lower flower, photosynthate from the upper leaves will still reach the lower flowers, at a lesser amount, for two reasons. First, distance, and this is where relative osmotic location comes in. The closer the food is to the usage the more feeding is completed. Secondly, sink strength. If the draw (osmosis) is greater in one area, it will try to go there first, even though lesser cells may draw from the photosynthate pool on the way.

 

Thank you again for the warm welcome. I'm happy to be here

I love Jorge as a person. He's a great guy, and back in the day he opened my eyes on a lot of ideas about cannabis, but he lost me when he started talking about how more females can be found with higher nitrogen in the soil. Very little, if any, of my current information comes from Ed or Jorge.

No quoting 3alight, just posting a few of the juicy parts from their $500 book/paper weight. I don't agree with their technique at all, and thing they're taking advantage of newer farmers with their magical grow claims and over-priced coffee table picture book. I cant speak for their nutrient line as I've never used it, but it's over priced too. I've received no-so-nice messages from their team, and lets just say... we don't play well together, lol. You're not missing much by reading their book. It's basic stuff, written in very small paragraphs throughout the book. Nice pictures though, I'll give them that.

 

So, as I was saying, this is an unusual aeroponic-soil, and aquaponics, garden and currently has 5 rooms @ about +650 sqft, and has another +400sqft in the other half of the building.

The whole system is about +1300gallons right now, and growing; completely closed loop and recirculating, using aquaponics.

There's the tank/filter room the the immediate right (off camera), then 3 grow rooms, then a filter room on the end.

Here you can see my half setup, but functional trimming station.




There's two swirl filters for removal of larger solids and waste, and one moving bio filter, which is almost calming to watch in action.

 

Holy fre holy batman! Fuckin cool!

I need more time to absorb it all.

 

Size really hasn't been an issue for me. I really don't think there's a big difference in growth, compared to conventional hydroponic, even though my EC remains fixed throughout each plants life. Generally, its set & fixed between 1.5-2.0EC, or less than 1000ppm, in flower and veg.

13inchs and as thick as a quarter.

Here's an old clipping of average size, but keep in mind, I only grow for myself, and it seems I always have too much to smoke alone.

 

Well my brotha you've come to the right place. I'll help.

 

I use 2 swirl filters because of the larger particles clogging up my aeroponic sprinklers. I don't use grow beds with media and so I tend to get a lot of sediment that needs clean out. They're set up in different locations so I can shut off flow on parts of the system without actually stopping filtration. The swirl filter on the end of the line also works as the release valve for the system, and I control the pressure in the lines with it.

I really don't know how many fish I have at this point, as I don't measure by pounds as most aquaponic farmers do. Instead I measure nitrate levels, feed amounts/times, and fish health. If I have to guess, Id say about 75-150 trout (Brook & Rainbow) and 75 subunkins.

I generally shoot for:
pH: 6.4-6.8
Ammonia: 0.0ppm
Nitrites: 0.0ppm
Nitrates: 20-50ppm
Phosphate: 15-50ppm
Potassium: 50-200ppm
Calcium: 25-150ppm
Magnesium: 10-50ppm
Sulfur: 15-50ppm
Iron: 1-3ppm
Boron: 0.1-0.5ppm
Manganese: 0.5-1.0ppms
Zinc: 0.25-0.3ppms
Molybdenum: 0.01-0.02ppms
Sodium: 0.5-1ppm
Copper: 0.025-0.05ppms
Silica: 120-150ppm
Cobalt: 0.2-0.5ppm
Chloride: 50-110ppm
Iodine: 0.3-0.5ppm
Nickel: 0.05-0.1
Vanadium: 0.5-1ppm

 

You just regurgitated a bunch of stuff from a book, that's where.