Great White Shark - GHS

Well I was trying to keep it simple with the single gene determining. Well instead of trying to do something polygenic lets just say their is incomplete penetrance between two genes that control the color of the plant but and intermediate of the two gives you a third color yellow.


So lets say R is dominate(red) r is recessive(white/albino/lack of pigment) and Y is dominate (yellow, w/incomplete dominance and allelic dosage dependence causing blending meaning the degree of pigment varies on the gene combination) and y is recessive(also albino).


So you will have geneotypes


RRYY


RrYY


rrYY


RRYy


RRyy


rryy


RrYy


rrYy


Colors(phenotype) for those geneotypes would be


RRYY-orange


RrYY-orange


rrYY-bright yellow


RRYy-pale orange


RRyy-red


rryy-white


RrYy-pale orange


rrYy-pale yellow


So like I mentioned before because the Y gene coding for the yellow pigment has incomplete dominance with allelic dosage dependence the degree of the color varies with the copies(just added that to spicy things up a little). So as you see the genotype will give you a varying degree of yellow or orange depending if you have YY(bright),Yy(pale), or yy(white/albino). I just made that up as an example.


Or you could say there is a single gene still gene R with polymorphic types(more than one type of R gene that slightly differs giving a different color.)


So R1 is dominate(red) and R2(white) and lets pretend somehow blending the two makes yellow.


So you wold have the following genotypes with the corresponding phenotype


R1R1-red


R1R2-yellow


R2R2-white


If for some reason incomplete dominance confuses you it just means they blend, neither are completely dominate over the other. Now co-dominance is pretty much the same thing except it says both are fully expressed so with something like color both are expressed and can cause a blending color change. Not that you really need to know, but co-dominance is different from incomplete dominance when it has to do with expression for something like a cell surface receptor or something easier for you to understand terepene profiles. The smell and taste of your fruits of labor. Co-dominance would be something like having one plant that is real piney and then another that is like an orange or some type of citrus. You cross the two and you get a piney orange bud something like orang glo meets pinesol.


So if you didn't grasp any of that. A pheno is basically an organism you can visible or some how distinctively tell is different from another(same species).


For your question about the GWS and BB. You would want to take the GWS find the female that is the absolute best you can find and keep that going. Then take the Big bud grow it out and either use every male you have of the big bud to breed with or grow out a line of the big bud. Find the best female to suit your needs best yield and good quality and cross it to all your male big buds. Keep the males on hand and then grow out all those and find the females and see which father yielded you girls with the best outcome and this will be your stud father for crossing with the GWS to increase the yield. If you wanted you could then find the best female potency wise with an improved harvest and backcross it to the father and hunt out a better yielding potent mother.

 

I dont normally give much rep or anything to anyone,but that post deserves it. Best post on breeding here yet imo.


Cheers Skunky

 

Pictures!

 

Skunky, I do "grasp" what you tell me and in fact I find it all incredibly interesting! :bongin: That was kick ass and thank you for taking the time to explain it.

 

Fucking awesome! I wish I would have known where to find that. That's good of examples.


Blitz see the variation in color and size of the plants indicates the pheno. Tall vs short, green vs purple. Like with my rose example I only looked at color, so the only thing you can use to discern the pheno is the visible color.


Hopefully a lot of the people on here will see that chart and take away from it why F1 seeds are better than F2 crap. Just look at the punnet squares. F1 only has one pheno type while the F2 has four. F2 gives you alot more variation.


This is good when doing breeding project where you have a plant that contains within it lineage something else of interest. Say you(blitz) have


your GWS and you want to get some more traits from the skunk#1 side(although not sure on this due to the GHS, but if it were Mr.N for sure) to use for crosses to get more yield and a more skunk type hybrid. This could be done by making F2s of an F1 seed stock. Then you find the ones(females) with the traits you are looking for and use the father that created it as your father to introduce or boost those traits in other lines or for more of that side of the genetics you could take those F2 females you got that represent the Skunk#1 side and cross those both back to the F1 father and to the F2 males and the select from both of those stocks. Making the F3s will cause more diversity to further hunt or backing crossing can be done to stabilize, though if you were trying to bring one side of the genetics out over another it is going to take more than 2 generations to really do it. You could also test the suspect/candidate male(other than F1)by crossing it with your F1 mother and seeing how it changes it, if it induces a little more of the skunk#1, like this instance, or not. You could also do something like this to try and recover some lost genetics although way more time consuming to try and work a cross backwards and revive a lost line, but it can be done and would require tons of time and space.

 

What if I took a single male of Big Bud and simply put it in the room with the GWS pheno I have chosen. The GWS mother would go to seed. Those seeds would then be a GWSxBigBud yes? They would still carry the same GWS genes that made that plant a good "pheno" of GWS right? By growing out those seeds there would have to be SOME chance I would end up with a plant that would be a strong smoke with a good yield yes? Is there a way to visually determine which of the BigBud males would be a "stud" just by appearance? Once the GWS mother goes to seed you could then grow that out and find your best pheno from those?

 

Well see you are really taking a shot in the dark with using just one male. You could and could have some good results but you never know. A male is really only as good as its daughter offspring. So you could end up with something better or worse than the mother not knowing how good the father is. Would be nice if you coudl just look at a male and say "that male will yeild the best thing for what I'm looking for", but unfortunately you can't do that.


One of the main things that will determine if it works well is if the big bud male came from F1 or F2 stock, F1 is going to have the pheno prized by big bud while f2's will have it mixed in so more males are absolutely necessary to try to reach your goal.


But in short, yes you could do that and yes it would still contain the GWS genes, and yes you would just hunt out the best from the resulting seeds. However depending on the source and generation of the father depends on if you get what you are after. If you are wanting to just increase yields I would think you got a good chance of improving it a little bit if that's what you are after just because big bud plants are generally heavy yielders, even from what I've seen in most of the F2 stuff like nirvana so...

 

I understand. Just because a male BigBud might "look" good does not mean it would produce the best female plants. It was trying to hit the "EASY" button on that one. https://www.seedboutique.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=18&products_id=231Is this an F1 BigBud?



/monthly_2009_05/easy_button.jpg.091d91742bef2cd0281e7a1b166c188a.jpg

 

Yea I'm almost positive sensi's big bud is an F1. Though you could go to the man himself and get the original big bud for less$.


https://www.seedboutique.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=55&products_id=651

 

YES!!! :thumbsup: tHANk yOu sKUNKy!! I could talk to you guys all day. This whole thing is consuming my life man! There is so much to learn and I just want to know more! Thanks for the wisdom guys for real! HappyHigh... That is going in my notebook for sure! Great find and thank you! I try to keep notes and save what you guys say. I call it the GK Grow Guide.

 

Very good picture HHHG. I have the exact same one. :thumbsup:


Now, let me throw a wrinkle in here. Everything you guys are discussing is hybridization of two IBL's. What Blitz wants to do is a polyhybrid cross. Thats gonna change things up quite a bit. When you start talking about polyhybrid crosses, you need to look more at modern strawberry polyhybrids and how they are bred.


Still, skunky has laid out the basics quite well, and HHHG just added the visuals so you get an idea of what goes on and why.

 

Yea basically the hybrid will be more like an F2 than an F1. Loose a little hybrid vigor and stuff but that's really about it but yea if you want to do it right and really do selection learning how to breed polyhybrids is really a must. Man I wish I could make this my job instead of designing genetic type tests, would be much easier just focusing on plants instead of plants/humans/bacteria/virus and whatever.

 

What about seeds from a plant that has hermied due to stress? Say I have a my GWS pheno, could I force it to hermie and make seeds and would those seeds consistently produce plants with the same characteristics of the mother plant? If it were due to stress it would not then be a genetic trait in those seeds right?

 

You might read the overgrow breeding faqs I posted. But to answer this really quick the pheno will still be there.


But depending on how stable(homogeneous) the seeds were they came from. If the seeds were very uniform then you will further stabilize the pheno, however if the seeds weren't very uniform that mean there is still more allelic variation and since like useless stated these are polyhybrids(bred for more than one trait) and the variation in each of the contributions from the parental lines could result in diverse seeds from an S1(your hermied plant). This is pretty much what GHS did with TW, they worked it pretty much the way most hobby growers would and not the way a true breeder would. They made the self cross and introduced variation without re-working the seeds to be geared to produce uniform TW phenos. Which they could have easily done had they took the time to weed out everything and atleast cube the fuckers. Anyways, the hermied plants will pass along that predisposition so I wouldn't do it but if you do I would make sure to avoid any stress like lightstress or anything like that because some of those plants can just be weak and just hermie near the end of flower because of intense light. My paradise seeds sweet purple was like that, would hermie if it was in a room with more than 75W/sq ft or the temps got above 84*F. Pissed me off!


Now I'm not trying to come off as some master breeder, because I'm far from that. I just understand it pretty good and have tinkered a little here and there in the past(probably sometime in the near future). Like I said you should check out the breeding FAQs.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Skuzz...


If you want "trippy" then you are at the wrong end of the spectrum. GWS is very Indica. You need to look at the Haze varieties or other Sativa dominants.

 

Big Bud


bLITzkRIEg420 - The real Big Bud ( aka Critical Mass ) is one of the few strains being sold by Mr.Nice this year, so if you want it you better get it as soon as it's available.

 

I'm too late HighGuy... :dontknow: SB sold out on Crit Mass! Doc is out and Attitude does not carry Mr. Nice at all!! So bummed. Do you have a link to a USA shipper w/it??

 

Does the Mr. Nice site ship to the USA?

 

I don't think they normally sell seeds directly, but you can send a PM to Shantibaba or a moderator on the mrnice forum to ask.


From what I've read, the latest batch of Critical Mass will be released soon. Check Seedboutique daily and grab it as soon as it's available.