Limiting stretching

Discussion in 'Advanced Cultivation' started by nuggnester, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. nuggnester

    nuggnester Pot & Poker Enthusiast

    Do I remember someone saying something about how if you've vegged with a MH, then the best thing to do to avoid stretching issues is have a MH going for the first two weeks of flower? Is this correct? I'm going to have two 600W lights up, so essentially I can either use two HPS's or one HPS and one MH for the first two weeks... Obviously I'll be using both HPS's past that time. I have some indicas I'm not worried about but I have a feeling my Sour Sage is gonna streeeeeetch.

    What's the choice?

    Oh and why are people so afraid of the stretch? I mean a controlled stretch is what a grower wants, I thought? I LST so my plants are a big bush...when they stretch those budsites are going to lengthen themselves away from the canopy, therefore allowing a significant part of the cola to be above the canopy, getting lots more light. Just curious. The stretch seems like the devil around here...
  2. Bigbud214

    Bigbud214 Ganja Guru Extreme

    doesnt limiting stretch result in more nodes and therefore more budsites? plus doesnt a closer node spacing result in a denser overall bud? not sure if im correct here but thats what i seem to remember...
  3. CCrete

    CCrete Mr. Poopyfacepeepeehead

    I dont really think the MH n HPS combo will do anything for the stretch, I think thats a tiny wives tale, Ive seen with my own eyes, that an HPS will make a vegging plant stretch more so than a MH but thats only in veg Ive seen

    Ive tried the mixed spectrum flowering before, it does nothing IMO/E

    Why not just use some Bushmaster in the first week, 1st 4 days, then go back to you usual mix, it will totaly stop ALL stretch
  4. Dixie Hicky

    Dixie Hicky Excommunicated

    Im with you on this one. I NEED my stretch. I do SOG, so when I go to 12/12 my plants are 8-10 inches tall. If they stretch to 16-22, that's perfect.

    I can see how if you're growing in a small space, height could be a problem, but I dont have that to worry about.

    About your question, yes, I also read that using your MH for first two weeks will control stretch. Also, there's BUSHMASTER. I havent used mine yet, but those who do swear by it--it stops verticle growth while causing much horizontal branching, they say.

  5. Gramps

    Gramps Germinating

    I'm growing a very stretchy sativa strain that was great in hydro/scrog but a little leggy for dirt - had to get control of bugs so switched to dirt for a crop or 2. The canopy was too dense to treat effectively in scrog. Anyway, I've found that if you switch to 12s gradually it reduces the amount of stretch. Cheers
  6. Dixie Hicky

    Dixie Hicky Excommunicated

    This question gets kicked around a lot and everybody has his own perspective.

    In my experience, every cola will cover with bud as long as it gets light, regardless of how far apart the nodes are. So, Im confused about this, too.

    I think a plant will produce as much bud as it is genetically programmed to produce, period. I dont think we can do anything to MAKE it produce more, but we CAN make it produce LESS. I think our job as growers is to give the plant everything it needs to support it to do it's genetic best and not get in it's way.

    But....I dont know for sure. Come Spring, I have several experiments I intend to do. One thing I personally want to know is whether LSTing and topping versus leaving a plant au naturel makes a difference in total bud weight. Obviously, bud SIZE may vary---from experience I know that a single cola plant produces ONE gigantic bud, while a topped one produces many smaller ones. What I dont know is, is the TOTAL bud weight different or the same.

    So Im gonna start five clones from the same mom, LST one, top one, leave one alone to go natch and trim one for single cola. The last one, I will grow natch but defoliate. Then, weigh the total of each.

    Obviously, if a single cola plant produces 2 oz and a wide horizontal, multi sited plant produces 2 oz, can get a LOT more single cola plants under one light than the wide ones, increasing your TOTAL weight. On the other hand, if it turns out having abunch of "bud sites" from topping or LSTing, actually produces more total weight, then, sure, that's the way to go.

    Just as Im also curious as to whether 10 small plants in a SOG actually produce more or less or the same total weight as say, four bigger plants.

    Im gonna find out all this, come Spring Grow, LOL.

    But in my experience so far, I think the entire exposed stalk IS a "bud site" regardless of how close the nodes are. Some people like the look of the smaller buds, some like the big honkers. I dont really care. Im just interested in TOTAL bud weight, not the size of individual buds.

    I think I prefer one bud that weighs two oz (dry) to a bunch of smaller buds that weigh two oz, actually. Mostly just because those BIG ones look so cool.

    Sigh...Im gonna be a BUSY gal, LOL.

    "Science in the Home".

  7. dlr42

    dlr42 King of GrowKind

    So what you're saying Dix is size matters????

  8. mt.king

    mt.king mud drags champion

    things that stop the stretch

    Cut back the b-vitamins add a phosphorus boost like bud blood or bud blaster also bushmaster works really well. Run the metal halide for the first two weeks of flower it also helps to stack nodes instead of node spacing. I use the bushmaster myself. :thumbs-up:
  9. SirStynkalot

    SirStynkalot A Fat Sticky Bud

    I used 2 HPS and 1 MH this whole run.

    The MH made a minor difference, but it was only about 2/3 of the overall stretch. I did get tighter node spacings at the top with the MH though. half my plants were rotated every 4 days, half were rotated every 2-3 weeks. it was obvious which was under which light.
  10. Dixie Hicky

    Dixie Hicky Excommunicated

    Yes. It does. Bigger is better.


  11. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    I'm with Dix. Most of my gardens need a bit of stretch since I generally train the shit out of my plants. By the time flowering starts most decent stems have been pulled so far over a little extra height is almost a necessity. Of course the Hazex I was vegging recently blew the shit out any stretch I'd ever experienced. Was so bad I thought of weed whacking the bastards just to keep then in the grow fridge.
  12. Bigbud214

    Bigbud214 Ganja Guru Extreme

    I miss the grow fridge... that was teh coolest grow cab ever
  13. hydromorphone

    hydromorphone Excommunicated

    Another way to control stretch and have tight intermodal spacing is to have very low temperature changes between day and night cycles. I like to keep the vaiation no more than 10 degrees but prefer less than five.
  14. pookie

    pookie Veggy Stage

    keep us posted

    dix, on your very interesting experiment. i'll be following along, im curious to see what your results are.
  15. Green Goblin

    Green Goblin Cannabis Connoisseur

  16. choker

    choker HIDING OUT

    Stretching has 2 meanings that i know of. Stretch is not liked in between the nodes. Stretch when the plant flowers and grows 3 feet is good. Just as long is there is no stretch between nodes.
  17. Green Goblin

    Green Goblin Cannabis Connoisseur

    stretch is only good if the point of you growing this plant is to find new exciting ways of tying them up so they dont fall over.

    stretch is niether good, nor a necessary evil.

    its all about providing the plant with the right environmental stimulus.

    here read...

    go here for the original with pics...

    as for the howz of the short stalky plants:

    in order for a person to really understand this u need to first understand a very simple and basic law of nature.

    "every action in nature is the result of a reaction to an environmental stimulus."


    "if an organism has recieved/gathered/or been subjected to its ideal environmental stimulus, it will produce the end to which it was designed."

    in other words give ur plant what it needs and it will do what its supposed to, and if you create environmental issues the plant will react accordingly.

    choosing good clones is important. clone as much as possible i kept a 12x24 clone tray. toss the tall ones, the slow ones, the ones that turn yelow or purple. keep only quick rooting healthy clones.

    aside from being in rockwool, notice the size of the green parts, this would go into a 1.5" pot at this point

    so we know that the amount of bud on a HEALTHY plant depends on the size of its root mass. so from the first day u need to grow your plant to have as large a root ball as possible. this means start with as small a pot as possible and replant to slightly larger pots only after the plant has utilized all the space available. i transplant as many as 6 times and end up in a 6" pot, very small increas each time...the root mass develops on the outside of the soil in the pot, very little root develops in the soil itself in comparison. in nature the plant wants its roots spread as far as possible in order to pick up as many nutrients as possible. but being that we "give it food" in a central location the vast expanse of roots we can create an environment that causes the plants roots to grow dense in a smaller area.

    to keep the plants short i use flos for veg in order to keep the lights as close as possible while maintaining a low plant and environment temperature. doing this keeps internode length under 1/2"

    this is day 44 of veg...

    its important to have high intensity, i mounted fixtures side by side so the bulbs were close together and that was less than 1/2" from the plants.

    i also pinch n twist the stems once a week, this keeps the stem notted n strong and reduces vertical growth, without reducing root growth to any discernable degree.growing from 2" clones 8 weeks later they are 6-8" tall in 6" pots because growth is slowed from pinching bending and repotting. i continue pinching until after the plant has been in flower for about 2 weeks. as the plant rebuilds itself from the dammage, vertical growth through the "stretch" is reduced to a minimum.

    environment. this includes air flow in the space and temp/humidity

    in the flower chamber airflow needs to resemble a windy day. not a tornado, but a windy day. go outside on a windy day/stormy day and look at how the leaves move. put enough fans in the space to mimic that on every branch.

    proper environmental controls are needed to maintain fairly specific temp/humidity relationship. high humidity will help the plant process food, by reducing the amount of foliar evaporation water is better used inside the plant. ideal short plant environment is 68-72F 60% humidity. it is crucial to have adequate and acurate controls in place. ie humidifier on a humidistat, and a real thermostat. at 68F and 60% humidity dew point is 59F. at 70% its 64F which is awful close to ur room temp of 68. this is another reason for the windy day atmosphere. with adequate air movement the intake air will be more mixed and have less oportunity to drop the temp of any surface to the death by mold mark of 59F

    the lower temp will elongate the maturation process so its important to have aloupe and harvest by trichs not time.

    these are AK-47 at 11 weeks i think they went for 13 total. notice i flushed too early...

    the lamp needs to be as close as possible without bleaching. this requires an air cooled hood with a tempered glass cover. a 600HPS shouldnt need to be any further than 6-8" if ur temp and humidity is as stated above and you have adequate airflow.

    in short,

    start with small healthy quick rooting clones

    repot as much as possible durring veg

    veg under intense flo lamps in 68-72F @ 60%

    maintain temp and humidity(properly controlled)

    pinch the stems through week 2 of 12's (The appoco-lips stimuli)

    maintain proper lamp height

    harvest by trichs not dates...soak and eat the dates

    happy growin' :pimp:

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