great site first indoor grow i have several new clones in my table with a 15 gallon resivour i did not have a ph tester when i started so we put 7ml. of acid in the mix the next day i got the tester and the ph was 8 so i put another 5ml. in this brought it down to 7 i was told not to put any more in or i could have problems do you think i should add more to get it down to 5.5 and if i go to far what do i do i am growing in rockwool with a pump and air running 24\7 the table always has about 2 inches of mix in it thank you for any help
i like to keep my water at about 5.5 pH. i can't imagine a reason why someone told you not to add more. p.s. i'm not an expert, but i grow nice hydro plants! good luck to ya
Check the PH often and change frequently to start with. Sounds like the wool is pulling the ph up. It will settle,, but change the res. at least thrice.
I think to get the ph lower i will rinse the plants with clear water i will o this at each plant might help??AND THANKS FOR THE ADVIVE
some acid are better than others. for eg if you add hydrochloric acid (HCl) chloride ions are released which arent too good for the plant. but if you get a proper hydro acid like phosphoric acid it doent matter how much you add
You're right about the the use of HCl, nice, but a bit erroneous on stating that it is ok to add as much H2PO4 as one wants. Adding Phosphoric acid will release the hydronium ion but leave the res with phosphates. Phosphorus is not consumed quite as much in the vegging stage as it is in the flowering stage. Changing the ratio of the three main nutrients may not neccessarily be a good idea. Sulphuric acid is a much better choice to use in the veg stage as a plant can tolerate up to 12% of sulfur without any problems. Also extra sulphur will deter bugs, mold, mildew, as well as other unwanted guests in the grow room. As to what pH one has to use in the res, there is much confusion on that topic. The best pH is 6.2 as this allows the proper ions to dissolve in the proper ratios for maximum absorbtion. The confusion arises because of the medium used. With Rockwool, the ph should sit about 5.6 to account for it's natural alkalinity. When I use to use it I kept mine at 5.8, the half way point. The pH needs constant adjustments when using rockwool as it is always naturally alkaline but as long as you keep it between 5.4-6.4 it will allright. With Hydroton rocks, the pH should sit at about 6.2 as the rocks are inert and do no exhibit any pH fluctuating characteristics. The instructions you were given may be a reflection of what medium you are using to grow with. However, I agree that 7.0 is a bit high.
Smurfy, I don't mean to step on toes but I noticed some info that you give that may not be completely accurate. You posted that the "best" pH is 6.2, ths is incorrect. The universally accepted pH for hydro growers is around 5.4. In fact, I often let mine sink to 5.2, the reason that hydro can go so much lower than soil is because hydro is not a "constant feed" as with soil. Flood and drain work on a gorge, then starve cycle. Kinda like feast then famine, it forces the plants to take in while they can, and the rockwool does retain some nutes. Even with rockwool you should be shooting for the 5.4 pH mark because the rockwool should have been presoaked so that is does not manipulate the pH. Hydroton is inert and does not effect pH. Phosphorous is not bad during any stage either, in the form of Phosphates. Phosphates contain alot of energy and are a requirement for the citric acid cycle to take place, they provide the energy for ATP's and NADH's to be formed, thereby allowing growth, additionally, for good development the root system loves Phosphoruous. I used to keep my pH arond 6.0 but it was a whole new world once I was convinced to go for that 5.4 mark, give it a try. I use this pH (5.4) in both flood and drain and DWC. Good luck.
Hi JE, I usually don't like to draw out a full detailed picture for any grower in my posts as this spoils the learning curve but instead give them enough literature to figure some things out for themselves. You are an intelligent person as many of your posts suggests and I don't want to commence any more lectures to growers who don't accept my advice BUT PLEASE, PLEASE do the following experiment for two reasons..... 1. the sake of grow knowledge 2. test my credentials. I welcome other growers to perform the same experiment as teaching and learning by yourself with guidance from others is the best method of learning. Experiment: 1. Setup your resevoir to the desired pH and maintain it the best that you can to achieve the perfect explosive growth. 2. With two pieces of blank rockwool, whatever size your girls uses, presoak 1 of them and leave the other alone. The pH of the pre-soak is whatever you normally use to pre-soak your rockwool cubes with. 3. Place the two rockwool cubes in your grow area so that they can absorb the nutrient solution simultaneously when your girls get fed and leave them there for at least 2 days. Remember which one is presoaked and which one isn't. Thier location is preferably one that can transpire water but this isn't crucial. 4. After the two days, get two large containers (bowls are fine) and place the individual cubes into each container. Squeeze all the liquid out of cubes into their separate bowls. Do not perform this immediately following a watering cycle. Instead it is much more reliable and accurate to do it just before a watering cycle. 5. Using a pH meter measure the runoff solution you have just squeezed out of the test cubes. I am confident that you will be amazed at what you find to be your runoff pH. This pH level is what your girls are accustomed to most of the time and is the pH responsible for producing the explosive growth, not the pH in your resevoir. Then re-read my post again and it will make a lot more sense the second time round. Peace
I emptied everything and started over and rinsed the girls . The ph came down to 55 now it is sitting around 6 4hours later thanks for all the repies
I can Only draw from my own experience/conclusionz with my NFT hydro: 1)My plants Flourish even in 4.5 PH!!! I use too much accidently, but the 4.5Ph didn't even faze them! 2)I Never allow my Ph to go higher than 6.2PH! Your plants will appear healthy at 6.2PH but they won't grow as fast! 3)You should keep your PH as close to 5.3PH as Possible. That'z when they grow tha fastest! Hands Down! 4)This is what i do- I set my ph at 5.0(trust me.this isn't too low.)...and Never have to adjust my Ph ever again!(Albeit i ONLY use R/O water)! Yes. This meanz that it takes at least 2 weeks for my Rezzy PH(runoff ph for others) to rise to 6PH(which even this rarely happens)); and by that time-it'z already time to dump & flush & replace my rezzy solution all over again! I honestly can't imagine Hydro getting easier than that! With tap water...you probably could manage to get by at least a week before you hafta re-adjust. Oh yeah...you wanna know my secret right? No prob...i use a product called "Get Down Ph Lower". It's especially designed for hydro and it'z cheap! "Get Down Ph Lower" is composed of a special blend of phosphoric/nitric/citric/sulphurous acids!!! So there you have it fellow growkinkers! "Get Down Ph Lower" should be considered a Nutrient...i don't care what anybody sayz.... To me PH is EVERYTHING! I've tried Botanicare PH lower...and that is also a good alternative. Good luck in your own grow and keep your PH Below 5.8 AT ALL COSTZ!!! Yes, you can get by with 6.2PH...but the truth is...lower iz really better when it comes to acid loving cannabis. (Edited by ismoke2much at 2:58 am on Nov. 28, 2003)
I am haveing to adjust my ph daily! I set it at 5.3 and the next day it is up to 6 again. I am useing the Pure blend pro with Cal-mag and Thrive alive green (organic) I am useing tap water. Can anyone tell me why I have to fight the ph constantly?
Hi bossman, there are a couple of potential reasons why you are "fighting" the pH to maintain it. First reason that comes to mind is, are you using rockwool? If yes, that's one of your problems. Rockwool is naturally alkaline (basic) and will bump the pH upwards as it slowly dissolves; Yes dissolve. Many growers who use rockwool like to keep their resevoir pH levels around 5.2 to 5.8 as this produces a pH of 6.2 within the rockwool. The more cubes of rockwool you use, the quicker the pH will fluctuate as more of the rockwool is dissolving. This in turn calls for the resevoir pH to be even lower. Many growers giving advice on pH will generally recommend 5.4 but this is quite erroneous as they have no idea how many cubes of rockwool you are using. To find out what pH you should set your resevoir at, place a couple of blank cubes into your grow area so that they are soaked the same time your girls are. After a few days, take these cubes and squeeze the fluids out of them and measure their pH. You are trying to aim for 6.2. Adjust your resevoir pH levels until you get the magic number. Another reason why your pH is fluctuating so quickly is because of the Cal-mag supplement. If you measure the pH of the calmag you will notice it is extremely acidic, down to 1 point something. This is required to keep calcium in solution. Calcium is a natural buffer level 6.4. What this means is that right after you add the calmag, the calcium ions will mix into the resevoir as much as the solution will hold, consume as much acid as possible, and any excess will solidfy into calcium oxide since the pH in your resevoir is higher than the calmag bottle; rendering the pH as close to 6.4 as possible when it does. When acid is added, the excess calcium oxide will dissolve consuming the acid again until it reaches 6.4. If the pH gets higher than 6.4, the opposite occurs; the calcium ions will re-solidy releasing the acid it once consumed to maintain it back to 6.4. The remedy to this is to not add so much of the cal-mag. It's buffering characteristic is indicative that there is too much of it in your resevoir. Back to the magic number of pH 6.2. Many growers will tell you to drop the pH down well below 6.0 to achieve best growth because mj is an "acid loving plant". Let me tell you, they are wrong. Not to the fact that mj is an acid loving plant but to their perception of what that means. Cannibus prefers a pH of 6.2, I'll explain why later, and if you are using an alkaline medium then you need to adjust the resevoir pH accordingly so that your girls see 6.2 within and surrounding the medium. It doesn't matter if your resevoir is at a pH of 1.0 so long as the girls see the pH at 6.2 at the medium. The medium is where the nutrient is stored after a feeding. In between feedings, that is where they seek minerals so it is vital that the pH is correct there. Contrare to believe, an acid loving plant doesn't mean that it loves acid. (A little knowledge is a dangerous thing). An acid loving plant means that it enjoys phosphorus in high levels. Cannibus is one of these types. Phosphorus is a mineral that is found abundantly in an ionic form (the only form usuable to plants) under acidic conditions. The closer the pH is to neutral or above the less phosphorus is available to the plant. At pH neutral, the total composition of phosphorus ions consists of less than 1% much too low for healthy cannibus growth. With this reasoning, a grower can assume that the lower the pH the better right?. Wrong! Cannibus not only need phosphorus it also requires two other macro nutrients as well as 8 micronutrients; Macro nutrients such as Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium are required in large quantities whereas the micronutrients are required in minute quantities. Lowering the pH below 6.0 has relatively no effect on the macronutrients ability to become ionic in solution. However, lowering the pH below 6.0 has a profound effect on the micronutrients ability to become ionic in solution. At pH 5.4 (the pH recommended by some) the micronutrients Copper, Zinc, Boron, and Iron reach levels almost as high as the macronutrients. Keep in mind that these items are only needed in trace amounts. The result is the nutrient solution becomes toxic with micronutrients. Afterall, the plant prefers large amounts of N, P, and K....not copper or iron.....The pH range to keep the ions in a ratio that cannibus prefers is between 6.0 to 6.4. In this range, there is ample macronutrients available to the plant but equally important the micronutrients levels are kept at bay preventing toxicity. The reason pH 6.2 is the magic number is because it lies in the middle of the range allowing the maximum amount of forgiveness to pH fluctuations. This is not to say that you should run your resevoir at pH 6.2; by no far stretch of the imagination. As mentioned earlier, the pH level at the resevoir is secondary to the pH level found at the medium. You must adjust your pH levels in your resevoir accordingly to what the medium runoff is to attain the maxium growth from your girls. The blank cube test is an excellent method to ascertain the information sought at hand. I know it's a little work but who said growing was a lazy man's job? Hope that helps
Wow! Thanks for the respounce. I am useing the Starter plugs made out of tree bark. I dont know what there ph is when soaked in water. I thought I was haveing a Mag. problem so I have been adding the recomended dose for my ressy. Maybe I will cut that back a little an not worry about the ph untill it gets above 6.4. I thougt Hydro would be a little more hands free. I think someone said in another post, "Hydro is for people that want too complicate there lives". I think he is right! Though you can grow more in a smaller space. Thanks! -peace- (Edited by 1bossman at 2:30 pm on Dec. 5, 2003)
Talk iz Cheap.The proof is in the pudding...5.0PH can give you this- behold the white rhino powered "Acid Luvin Plantz"!--- Shown Above: NFT Hydro Rezzy 3 wkz Old! Trust me-they are much greener in person... ...I took this picture tonite right before I flushed! Mind you i Only initially set my PH @5.0 Once; and 3 wkz later-it is Still below 5.8 ph!!!(Note-this cannot be done with Tap Water; but with Store Bought Water only...) Happy Growing Fellow Growkinders...jus do wutever it takes to get you high...i know i do... P.S. Thanx Useless...becuz i Had 2 learn this Ph Trick from Someone, right? Ph Nute Lockout Deficiencies? What deficiencies?What's that? Fert Burn? what fert burn? What'z that? (Edited by ismoke2much at 2:45 am on Dec. 7, 2003)
you sure know your stuff smurf,all the expert's back you up. http://www.hydro-techhydroponics.com/NUTRIENT%20PH.htm (Edited" target="_blank">http://www.quicktrading.com/tips9.html (Edited by bonbon at 3:02 am on Dec. 7, 2003) (Edited by bonbon at 3:04 am on Dec. 7, 2003) (Edited by bonbon at 3:07 am on Dec. 7, 2003)
Although those systems to that link are useful, I don't know that I would refer to them as experts. I have a feeling that they are simply an enterprising group of persons. The design is appropriate but the materials may be lacking (my opinion) Additionally, smurf does seem to know his stuff. However, after speaking with him in chat about the system he utilizes, everyone need to realize he is using a system that is not common to you and I (I don't want to talk about HIS setup) but basically he has a chiller in his res which keeps his solution cold retaining more oxygen, in which case a lower pH would precipitate his nuterients out of solution. What he does works, but it's because he has established a balance, additionally he uses no medium. I will attempt to locate some hydro and soil absorption charts, then you can make you decision (whom ever it may concern). Notice the labeling at the bottom of the water culture side of the chart says "pH of nutrient water or saturated soiless mediums" Hope this helps. (Edited by Joint Effort at 12:29 pm on Dec. 7, 2003)
Thank Thank U Joint Effort...the Water Culture diagram definitely supportz my reason to keep my Rezzy Ph@5. The diagram to the right(Water Culturez) is Solid Proof that 5.0 Ph is a Good thing; and Essential MicroNutrients are easily readily available...which even Smurfy007 can agree with me there. But i must disagree with Smurfy007 about toxicity. If you use very small amounts(like you're Supposed 2) of micronutes compared to MacroNutes(that'z why their called MacroNutes); your plants have only to benefit from such a very low PH! MicroNutes are Just As Important as MacroNutes-the only difference is that you happen to use proportionally less. But Smurfy007 is right-that you hafta be extremely careful when it comes to adding supplemental micronutez. So I Will Admit that I must special mix my fertz as so it will co-operate with my NFT Hdyro Culture. You can't just buy one ingredient and Expect your plants to look this Healthy. ----------------------------------------- Here is ISmoke2Much'z very own Hydro Recipe(better than 90% of the Over-the-Counter Fertz out there today: 1)1 Tablespoon of Get Down Ph lower for a 14 gallon rezzy and R/O water. 2)SuperNatural Brand Fertz(Yes itz chemical..but i use Natural ingredients as well to cover all my bases... . A 1/2 teaspoon per gallon will do your plantz right! 3)Dolomitic Limestone-1/4 teaspoon per gallon(Ca and extra Mg&S). It bufferz@PH of 7. 4)Epsom Salts-1/2 teaspoon per gallon.(Mg&Sulphur) 5)Chelated Iron-a very tiny amount goes a long way. I use a tad less than Manufacturers recommendationz.(Fe) ------------------------------------------------ Yep. I have never posted this Recipe here before...but i guess now is a probably a good time(FAQ potential? hint, hint... ) This chemical/natural combination recipe is Soo frikken good...i am not afraid to share it with anybody...so here you are folks... ...enjoy... (Edited by ismoke2much at 3:12 pm on Dec. 7, 2003)
First off GKers, you have to learn to read before you can learn to grow. I’m not here to argue or step on toes. I don't consider anyone's membership age or number of posts under their handle or number of pictures uploaded to be symbolic of their mj grow knowledge; their time spent at GK doesn’t represent that they know how to grow. The number of posts can be inflated with useless but encouraging posts such as “Great Post man” and their pictures don’t necessarily mean they are producing the maximum yield that they should be producing. I don't consider myself as an expert or guru for that matter. I have lost the love of growing mj a few years ago but have found a new passion for testing. My method of growth is empirical, untainted, and avoids contamination even from mediums as this is testing in it's purest form. I test because I find mj to be a fascinating plant. The final product I harvest is much too abundant for me and requires me to give it to people who can aid me in my research or require it for one reason or another. There is no monetary gain I assure you. I have a partner who also tests and together we validate each other's findings. There is a reason for what we do besides learning but I am not at liberty to disclose all the details as I don't have his full permission which I respect. Information that I post are not related to my method of growth. It represents the general idea of how to grow mj for those who use it medicinally but cannot afford it. I cannot teach you how to grow mj in your garden as that requires me to fly to your location, knock on your door, and review your garden in details with you. I can only explain and help you understand what is what so that you can adapt it to suit your needs so it is imperative that you read my posts carefully and understand the under principles. Though my partner and I utilize the same equipment, each of our gardens is set-up differently because of our different grow rooms. I present to all of you who want to learn truth, facts, and research. How you digest or interpret the information given is up to you. What works for you is fine whether you can understand it or not. I understand and accept the fact that not everyone has to understand mj growth down to the atomic level. JE has posted great info on pH versus solubility for soil and hydro applications. It concurs fully with my experiments and knowledge. If you read my post again it will make a lot more sense with the aid of that chart. (I believe you have to view it in encrypted mode) His comment on my method of growth was unneccessary and irrevelevant as I find it confuses the issue of pH. The chart is relatively self explanatory, but for those who are not technically inclined, it represents the ratios of what happens to what ions at what pH levels. You decide what is right for your girls. Enclosed is a breakdown of nutrient levels that stimulated the most amount of growth in mj that both my parner and I agree on, irregardless of strain during cloning and vegging. Our preliminary test included pH but once established, focused on minerals. Our harvesting cycle is set to every two weeks and between the two of us, we harvest four times a month. The following guidlines were attained after exactly 24 harvests of testing and medling and then 12 harvests of validating. Canabinoid levels were also examined and tested regularly at a lab in UBC by friends and former colleagues before we concluded that test. Ion Cutings Saplings Vegatative Transition =============================================== N 20 92 351 185 P 23 79 192 158 K 36 145 251 290 Ca 3 13 40 26 S 3 13 13 26 Mg 7 26 33 53 Fe 0 2 4 3 Co 0 1 4 2 Mn 0 2 2 1 Mo 0 1 3 2 Cu 0 2 2 2 =============================================== 92 376 893 748 The test was conducted using 0 ppm de-ionized water and each mineral was attained individually and measured. No additivies or boosters were used. (Edited by Smurfy007 at 5:56 pm on Dec. 7, 2003)
Err...you're missing the Flowering PPM "sweet spot" data there Smurf.... I agree with those ratios...very nice... Hmm...so are we agreein' on something or are we disagreeing...i'm confused all of a sudden...? Smurfy; i do not refute your statements of 6.2 being the "sweet spot" inside the Medium/Rockwool itself. I agree with you okay? Feel better? The thing is...you are in fact publicly "disagreeing" with me... ...but what if we both were agreeing with one another without ever realizing it? Ya dig? Let me sum it all up in a nutshell between U, JointEffort&myself: 1)U stated that 6.2PH is what countz inside the Medium/Rockwool itself..."even if the rezzy ph was 1..".Yes, i do recall you saying something to that nature.Re-read tha thread my friend and you will soon realize that i NEVER Disagreed with that Statement that u stated. 2)Joint Effort stated that 5.4PH is the "sweet spot" inside the Rezzy(i also concur)...you retorted by stating that we somehow "overlooked" your statement listed above about the 6.2ph is the "sweet spot" inside the medium/rockwool. 3)I had stated that i originally set my NFT Rezzy@5 becuz i know that 3 weekz from now it will finally stabilize at 5.8 "inside the rezzy". In no way does my facts doesn't correlate with You and Joint's statements. Conclusion---i think we were All in Agreement the entire time! And why don't you like my Garden Smurfy007? You're almost as bad as Chopstick...man i bet you make lots of friends at the dinner party'z dontcha? You sound like a very smart guy smurf...i give you that. But...you said it yourself..."you're not a jedi knight yet niether", am i right? What if i told you that those plants ARE LESS than 5wkz old...would that impress you? And i didn't use an HPS light on 'em babies neither...impressed yet? And the rezzy bein 3wkz old...those veggy plants look pretty healthy still don't they? If my plantz don't look "healthy" to you...then you're one tuff critic! I don't know 'bout u there smurf...but they look pretty damn good ;considering them being only 5wkz old...wouldn't you agree?Work with my here smurf...give me a pat on the back fer Godsakez Man! I'll tell you what...december 23rd will be my 1yr Anniversary @growkind...and i didn't know Squat before i came to growkind...impressed yet? If you're not impressed with my NFT Hydro yet...check me out 5 yrs from now...oh yeah...oh yeah... ...i am not a jedi yet...not yet anywayz...not yet... (Edited by ismoke2much at 8:59 pm on Dec. 7, 2003)
