ranger, i just wanted to apologize if you felt that i was attacking you yesterday. i haven't bothered reading the forum at all today. i just can't stomach it. i have been sick to my stomach ever since we started bombing iraq and killing people over there and putting our troops in harms way. you have to understand you are talking to a guy who can't even stomach eating meat because i can't bring myself to kill an animal and im not going to use the cover of other people doing it for me to ignore that fact that i would be directly responsible for the death of that animal. im also the guy that wears the pin "why do we kill people who kill people, to show that killing people is wrong" so this situation is a real dillema for me. i cannot just ignore all of the details of this situation in order to stick to my beliefs on life. i don't know what is right in this situation and am very frustrated. i took that frustration out on you becuase i feel that you do attempt to spin information and play on people's emotions in a situation that calls for sober consideration of all the facts at hand. in researching the history in iraq and given recent events i really believe that we need to do something about saddam. i dont think president bush is doing this just for money or oil, i really believe that he has the safety of the american people and the iraqi people at heart in this situation. i am just glad that i am not in his position because i would not have the stomach to do what he has felt is needed. none of us may like to consider it but there are times when force is required in order to deal with people like saddam. sure it may be possible that we could have given diplomacy more time but there are so many things to consider here in preparing and executing an action like this besides just the loss of life. i really feel the U.S. is doing its best to complete this action with a minimal loss of life and truly hope they can achieve that goal and have a quick end to this war.
Webby.. i must commend you on your decency and wanting a viewer of your site to not misunderstand your actions, as the owner of this site, almost all websites i know of, a owner would stick to what they say, and if person didnt like it, to bad.. im sure everyone else can understand what im saying, how great it is to have you as "one of us" if you want to put it that way..just another thing i thought i would pointout that really makes this site as great as it is, Ps- Wohoo another veg eh? i to cant stomach the killing of animals, im like lisa, in the simpsons, when she goes to eat the lamb, and sees the sheep bahing, asking her to not to eat her but thats off topic
Webby......two thumbs up for being the better man and putting your differences aside since every one has opinions.....and if we can't agree....we try to respect others regardless. Our differences is what makes us special and hey and we all love a good debate. I agree with ya....i am not a big red meat fan as well......lol I love my fruit..veggies and seafood the best! Peace
Here, here, Jerseygirl! Too much. It all boils down to, were all different and ain't noone changin me, so I'll have to accept the fact that somepeople are too happy in their ways, to change. God knows I've tried! I'm done with the endless spinning, so you all can have it. Your all my friends and I don't care about the politics portion of my GK!!! Just me, but it's a no win, and some like that. Not me. I hear what your screamin', brother! The future is the only truth, not all the speculation of everyone. Soon, we all can look back at this an laugh, until then I'm a silent partner, just too much anger for me to inflict on myself! I wanna take to stoners not Martin Luther King himself!!! Peace all!
Momma, you kiss waaay too much ass. Heads up web for that well explained topic. I cant believe how war tears friends apart really.
How is it kissing ass? he has nothing i want from him.. im serious.. before i ventured here, i came from a Msg board, that had some stupid ass powerholders..mainly 1 moderator, and the webmaster there, wasnt so much that he was a dick, he just didnt care about what the individual reader of his site thought, if they disagreed with him that is, if they agreed with him, and followed him then they get treated like royality, even if i was, your just jealous you dont got nothing for someone to kiss yours over!
I couldnt agree more webby about food. Just the thought of eating vegetables makes me sick. Those poor plants, completly defenseless, cant even run away, just sitting there soaking up the sun, gets chopped down because someone cant stomach eating something else. Some animals are no different. Bred in cages just for food. They spend thier lives in 1' x 1' cages just waiting to be slaughtered. If it wasnt for the fact that the human body needs protien and vitamins, i dont think id ever be able to eat bacon cheeseburger deluxes with lettuce, tomato and a side of fries loaded with ketchup.
hey Sylent don't forget a mufuggin slab a prime rib with aujuice.. compared to a carrot, I'd rather eat a cat. Cat, the other white meat.
You could all become Breathairians. Seriously though, I have heard this before, people who won't touch red meat because they love animals will happily eat seafood or poultry. Aren't those birds and fish entitled to life too? Is one animal less of a life than another? One of you please explain it to me.
apparently so, because they'll eat plants don't tell me they aren't alive too. some of the people who are vegans also believe in spirtual energy matter whatever. If every living thing is energy does it matter what the hell you eat? I say eat yer neighbors thay're probably full of energy! It's just the average human choice of good vs. evil.
Hell we're all here breedin plants for a CERTAIN death.... nothing like gettin burned up in a small pipe, or a piece of paper to f' up a day..... Much love, much respect to the WebMaster for sharing his views.......
Nothing like getting a bit older and having your body start telling you how bad that cheeseburger really was. Go ahead SS, chow down!
67ranchero im a "vegetarian". that means i don't eat meat. any meat. people who call themselves vegetarians and still eat fish, chicken whatever need to look up the word. look im a realisit, i know thousands of animals die in harvesting veggies, i do own objects with leather in them. if i was starving and it came to me living or an animal living i would pick me. i pick to kill helpless plants instead who cant look me in the eye (most of which have a seasonal life/death cycle anyway). im also not one of those people who go around telling other people they shouldn't eat meat. i just can't bring myself to kill an animal just so i can enjoy the taste of it's flesh. we don't need to eat meat to live, it's purely a luxury. i try to live my life in such a way that i inflict minimal pain and suffering on any other conscious being. i know there can never be 0 pain and suffering, but i can do my best and not enjoying a juicy burger is part of that process for me. at this point i also feel what we are doing in Iraq is part of that process. i have been listening to accounts by iraqi's who now live in the U.S. every one of them is for this action. a women recently gave a talk at one of the colleges here, she was from iraq and went to a speech by saddam some time ago, afterwords a guard asked her to come with him, she was taken into a room and told to take her clothes off, saddam himself then came into the room and raped her. the stories of saddam and his regime's brutality go on and on. i dont care about saddam not disarming, that's just the legal reason behind it, im for this action to get him out. i believe the pain and suffering we are inflicting on the people there now will ultimatly prevent more pain and suffering than it is causing now. that's my belief at this point. im just glad im not the one who had to make the final decision. i got so upset because it seems to me like the anti-war people dont even want a debate. they are just "anit-war" for the sake of being anti-war. its their right to be that way, i was very anti-war until just recently. then as i researched and pondered i began to change. i dont just take a stance and stay there, i always view each opionion as valid and something to be considered. i just dont see that from some people on this board. i want this political forum to be a place of open discussion where people weigh the facts and make informed decisions. not where a bunch of people who don't even plan on looking at the other sides point of view, and who bring in unrelated pieces of information meant only to illicit emotional responses, participate in endless bickering. i think some people on this site are purposfully sensational in their opinions and statements and take them to the extreme just to show people that "there are other ways to look at it". in my opinion that is irresponsible and not the correct way to try and get people to see your point of view. they both participate in the same B.S. spinning they accuse the other side of and neither is willing to stop and weigh the actual information at hand in each situation. aren't we dizzy yet?
I'm of the opinion that a peaceful invasion of "weapons inspectors" would have served the same purpose with the added benefit of the US not becoming a thug by committing an illegal war. If we went around deposing dictators and despots with whom we have disagreements, where would it end? I would like to think of our society as one that people throughout the world can believe in and take inspriation from, but the current regime in washington dc, IMHO, is more in favor of their fear (shock and awe). This "war" should be seen for what it is, not a liberation of Iraq, but as building an outpost for american business.
please show me another dictator with a track record like saddams. spend some time on the human rights page and read about saddam http://www.hrw.org/mideast/iraq.php if bush's reasons are financial then so be it. there are so many other ones to choose from. tony blairs recent speech is an excellent one too, he doesn't care if he's committing political suicide, he believes so strongly that saddam needs to be taken out. any leftists who actually reads saddams track record of human rights violations should easily be for getting him out of there. would you have been against taking hitler out as well by force? you guys claim to care so much about the iraqi people but you ignore all the data that shows how bad saddam has been to them. ill make a bet right now that once saddam is gone the iraqi people will be celebrating.
Webby point out to me where the "pro war" people are willing to listen and debate rationally...Im in the middle supporting our Government on certain aspects of the war and disagreeing with the way they are "talking of" handling Baghdad which is the most sensitive portion of this war in my opinion, yet despite Pro American posts I still am labeled as Anti American because of disagreeing with "aspects" of our governments thinking...Its either all or nothing both ways and the "pro war" promoters have been sensationilizihg their opinions as well.... It comes down to this and simply this: When YOUR family becomes some of those civilian causualities that must die in order to promote freedom... after the funerals, come in here and promote the necessary death of civilians to promote freedom until then... I personally dont want to hear it...
SD why suddenly was i only talking about the anti-war people?? my remarks were directed at anyone who won't even take time to consider the views of the other side. i dont know why people keep claiming to be for the iraqi people and ignore all the evidence of what saddam has been doing to them. what about the hundreds of thousands of funerals already attributed to saddam? why do we keep forgetting about these people??
 Webby, I was posting Amnesty International information that discusses the very things you are speaking of...Im with you 100% on the dethroning of Saddam my friend, seeing them all taken into custody and punished is the best scenario in my opinion. You have posted very good points, and many of them I actually agree with the only difference is: I believe we shouldnt "shock and awe" Baghdad...That has been my stance from the very beginning because if we do the civilian casualties "may" mount. I agree with ridding the desert of Saddams army, and agree with hunting down Saddam and his officials. He must be removed. However, the talk of "how" we are going to handle Baghdad disturbs me, and this is where the confusion ensues. If it becomes a bloody battle involving civilians we will be looked upon as terrorists and that is the last thing we need...Again Im neither far right nor far left just trying to look at this thing rationally...We cant forget those people, and we shouldnt...This is a delicate situation that may be solved through force down to taking Baghdad but what are the reprucusions of such actions going to be in the "long run"...wouldnt we be promoting more terrorism toward our country if we kill even a few hundred innocent people in this situation...The people of the middle east are already flaming over our move, what will they be doing if Baghdad comes down to a bloody battle?...This is one of my concerns. Why couldnt we take the deserts of iraq, neutralize the military and before storming Baghdad rather surround it would that be such a bad tactic? The solutions are endless it doesnt have to be one way... (Edited by Seizure Dude at 5:13 pm on Mar. 21, 2003)
