Stubborn Compost Pile :-(

I bought a compost tumbler the earlier in the week, and couldn't wait to put it to use. I'd been doing a lot of reading on it lately, and the general concept seemed fairly simple: mix browns for carbon, and greens for nitrogen, in a respective ratio of 25:1-30:1.


I read up on what to add, what not to add. Make sure it gets plenty of moisture to activate, but don't make it sopping wet. What I did not notice though were recommendations on if there was a "right" or "wrong" material, from the list of what to add. I read through RandyHigh's post on building our own high grade organic soil. All ready to go, and I was excited!


I put the tumbler together and fired it up, adding the following:


1.5-2 cubic feet of peat moss


3/4-1 cubic foot of perlite


1 cup of epsom salts


4 cups of dolomite lime


4 cups of fine sand (I've found, while experimenting and screwing around, I like a little sandy texture in my potting soil mixes)


5 cups alfalfa meal (got 50lbs for $17 at a feed store nearby!!)


2 cups bone meal


1/2 cup kelp meal


1 cup blood meal


Then, as a source of microbes, a couple pounds of Mr. Wiggles earthworm castings, couple pounds of General Organics' Ancient Forest Humus, and a few handfuls of FF Light Warrior.


I wet it down as I went, tumbled the hell out of it, added water until it seemed very very moist but by no means dripping wet, and tumbled it into next week.


This was done around 9am, it was about 45 degrees at the time. The high that day was about 60 degrees. I checked the next morning and nothing, all the stuff inside was still cold. So I left it alone for the day, and checked it again this morning. Nothing.


At this point, figuring the pile had too high a C:N ratio, I added the following:


1 can (standard size, dunno exactly how much) folgers crappy coffee


2 cups blood meal


After I added the additional ingredients I sprayed it again to get it as wet as it was the night before, and tumbled it up. This tumbler, by the way, has a wonderful design and does an excellent job of mixing up ingredients.


It was about 65 today and sunny, and the tumbler is situated to receive nearly 8 hours of full sunlight per day. When I finished gardening / lawnwork and was wrapping it up for the night, still nothing. No heat radiating from the tumbler, but strangely enough the alfalfa smell has dissipated quite a bit.


So obviously the microherd is at work on the alfalfa meal, but somehow my compost concoction just isn't taking off. Any ideas on where I'm going wrong here? Did I overestimate, using RandyHigh's compost story as a guide, how quickly the pile should be taking off? If so I'm certainly in for a rude ammonia-smelling awakening one of these mornings lol. Good thing I only have it half full and I can add more peat if needed.


Thoughts, any of you organic pros?

 

Man i am going to rep you for your studiousness's, effort, etc......


But man i use 1.50 a bag compost and top soil from Lowe's and MG nutes.


I do wish i had the patience and brain power thoughasssit:

 

Wow Toker, I gotta admit there certainly is something to be said for the simplicity of your formula. Lol some days I wonder why I put myself through all the wonder, thinking, curiosity, and reading, just to squeeze out what will most likely amount to be an extra ounce per harvest hehe.


I think I might actually try some top soil pretty soon, as well as screwing around with some coco coir also. The coco seems to be very highly touted on this forum. FFOF brags sandy loam as a mineral structural component in their soils, and I got to wondering... is that fancy terms for "topsoil"? If so I'm gonna find out real soon.


Ty for the rep brother, and reminding me that keeping it simple may be a good thing for a newb!! I gotta keep runnin my experiments though, it's just my personality


Maybe someday I'll just give in to the fact that hydro will grow plants way bigger, way faster, than the best soil mix on the planet!!

 

I dunno .....Im not an expert man, But my plants seem to look ok?


Have you seen them? Im just a lazy old fart, I do wish one day to be


like you in your approach.

 

Tumble often, and add fresh ingredients to the mix. Randy's thread is the thread to follow, but different environments will control results. It takes time to build a good compost. If you smell ammonia, it is too wet, if you smell earth it is just right, which I think you know.


Two things that help a virgin compost are worms and a scoop of good soil from your local area that already has a microbe system in place.


The best thing you can do with making compost is take the time to start a good one the first time. After that all you need to do is take a scoop of the original and add in the ingredients you have already done and things take off, though its not always as simple as that.

 

Ya know, in the time your wasting trying to figure this out, Ill have about half a run done in RDWC and will be half way to 1.5lbs under a 1k


just a thought........dirt boy!

 

I dont have a tumbler, but Ive been composting for many years. When Im having toruble getting it "going", I pour a liter of any cheap soda--anything WITH SUGAR. Gingerale, cola, whatever that is SWEET. Orange soda is my particular choice, LOL.


Once the bacteria and other micro organisms get their sugar on, they will multiply very quickly and you should feel some heat in 48 hours or so. If not, give em another liter. Also, it's gonna be a little slow until the temps rise a little and it's at least 70 at night.


Dix

 

Haha Chriscrete yeah I hear what you're sayin man The speed and power of hydro is definitely an alluring factor. Gotta be honest though, half the enjoyment for me in doing anything is in figuring out ways to do them better. I like to experiment, and tweak systems. Also my father was a Biology teacher, so I love studies of living things and ecosystems, so soil growing has mass appeal to me.


I read up on peat for composting, and turns out its biggest value is in providing aeration to the pile. It's very, very slow to break down, and so does not make a good source of carbon by itself.


So today I added a 2lbs. bag of long grain white rice, a stale box of wheaties, a box of lasagne and a box of spaghetti all chopped into smaller pieces, 6-8 blended up bananas, and a bag of blended up grapes. Gave it a good spray, a good tumble, and just waiting now. Only thing that sucks about doing this the first time is, after every change I make I gotta wait 48 hours to see if I got it right heh.


Dixie, if the microbes in there aren't fucking like jack rabbits and comin outa the woodwork like rats within the next 48 hours, I'll try the orange soft drink trick lol. Maybe toss in some dried black strap molasses too. And then if it still doesn't take off, I'll chalk it up to low temps. It's supposed to be around 56-60, night-time temps, for the rest of this week. And tomorrow day time is supposed to reach 77 I think.


Thanks for the replies all, great advice!

 

I make organic compost, but I don't use a tumbler, just a compost bin. I also just sue stuff like yard waste...leaves, grass, the wood chips and poop from our guinea pig, and some chicken manure from our coop. I add lots of veggie scraps and coffee grounds..... egg shells. Old used soil from past grows goes in too. I also add a little bit of Dr Earth Compost Starter.. Basically Alfalfa meal and a lot of beneficial microbes.


It takes months for any real amount of composting to take place for us. If it's cold you can cover with black plastic to help accelerate the process.


I'm no expert. I have successfully made and used my own compost though. I'm sure it could be a little quicker than what I have gotten, but a week sounds too quickly for things to begin properly composting... Decomposition takes some time.


Ohhh yeah and mine is outdoors obviously...but it os full of worms munching away on the decaying organics and stuff as well.:bong-2:

 

I suspect it's the low night temps more than anything else.


Microbes dont have sex! Them Poor lil buggers dont have no peepees! They multiply by cell division and basically they need sugar and heat to divide quickly. TOO MUCH heat will kill them, tho....and Im worried about the amount of blood meal you've got in there. Too much N plus too high a temp will kill your little microfriends. I think this is one of those times when Patience is called for....they cant multipluy any faster than they are able to with low night temps, but adding too much N in the form of castings, blood meal etc. PLUS the heat (once it gets warm at night) might tip you over the edge in the OTHER direction, if you see what I mean. In other words, you might get the compost warmed up now, then have it die in July from too much heat from the sun plus too much heat from your N sources.


Go gently....Ma Nature WILL compost anything, in Time. JUST dry vegetation plus we , a handful of soil, plus water plus heat will do it You've got all that PLUS a whole LOT of heat making other stuff.


So...caution and Patience!


good luck--I love compost. In fact, I believe Compost IS God. Every living thing, animal or vegetable, is part of the Nitrogen Cycle. We came from the primordial ooze of Compost and we will return to it. Compost is the Alpha and the Omega of this Thing we call "Life".


My point is, neither you, nor me, nor anyone can "make" compost. Nature makes Compost. The best and only thing we can do is provide everything She needs to do it as quickly as possible without going overboard and killing it.


It's kind of a Holy thing, really.


Dix

 

IMO, FWIW, THAT's the way to Compost. Put the stuff there and let Nature do the rest. Nitrogen is the end product of Compost. Adding excessive amounts of already-made N may get the process started quickly, but it may also bite you in the butt on the other end with too much heat.


Dix

 

I have a compost tumbler. I think your whole issue is that the outside temps are not hot enough yet. If you follow the directions and use that big ass thermometer that comes with it and it still is not making compost then it is for sure the outside air temps are too low. Every time I've had a problem making compost with mine that has been the issue.

 

Dix I've thought about the fact that I may have too much nitrogen in there now. To be honest thought there's gotta be nearly 4 cubic feet of volume in that sucker by now, most of it peat moss. So I'm kinda hoping that will control any potential for a runaway nitrogen situation. And if it does happen, I still have 2 free cubic feet in there so I can add more dry peat, tumble, and leave the lid off the tumbler a few days.


I should post a pic of it, see what you think of the texture and consistency.

 

IS this thing in your house?


It has to stink to high hell

 

Randy here


Randy High burned his bridge as many of us do on occasion but Joe Gardener was what became Randy High and later I progressed on to JackTheGrower and now just Ernst.


It has been some time since I counselled on compost. In fact I haven't written much about growing the Green and loving the soil since the Election of 2010 about more than Politics.


However my soil box I built is still next to me and is currently going fallow with a composting due to be sure i am rid of the White Flies. I tell you they are adapted to all kinds of things. Delayed hatching allows them to avoid ladybugs and possible pesticides which I avoid using at all costs but I digress.


The construction thread for my box is called something like "remaking or renovating" the grow box and in this Sites DIY section about in the first 10 pages. Oldest = 1st


I compost in box and the soil is now 10 years old. I did no till for 2 years now and it's okay but the White flies get a foot hold so composting wins but it's nice to know I can be lazy too.


So would you allow me to diagnose?


I went through the posts and I saw what you were attempting.


You have the right idea on wanting to end up with nutrients in your mix.


However some things can be added during the decomposing process or even after.


I dug the perlite and I saw the lime.


Lime and Sulphur are tricky in composting. It can be done but it is a much hotter pile and a lot more work to keep it turning.


Basically we are not needing to adjust the pH since microbes actually do this with their life processes.


If we start with materials that are not chemically reactive such as too much lime then the microbes will not face a chemical foe.


I believe I was trying to project my confidence and bolster my standing all those days ago but compost really is the work the bacteria and also fungus do as they live and consume.


If I remember right the micro-organisms need to make protein?


Well I wasn't thinking compost when I wandered on over here but I just googled and there are two text that possibly explain more on how these guys make proteins.


http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hsted/030202/03020202.html


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.communitygarden.org%2Frebeltomato%2Fpdf%2FScience_Pages%2Fcompost_science_page.pdf&rct=j&q=microbes%20make%20protien%20%2B%20composting&ei=4xWlTa5Tjr6wA-zW0PkM&usg=AFQjCNGGqfsHhoH-LeAB2DKwMK8LqkEsoQ&cad=rja


They look reasonable at a short glance.


When I do tumbler mix now I often am working with previously made soil. Since I know what has gone in these soils I find that mixing in greens and browns usually does the trick however, this is not where you are at.


If I was to start a new batch from scratch I would want the following things to do my primary "foundation" mix.


This is so that we get the start on humus more than we get a finished premium mix out of the gate.


I would get pine shavings. I find them local at feed stores and at a greater cost pet stores.


I would get some alfalfa pellets and if I knew I would go compost crazy getting a 50 pound sack is reasonable. It's always handy.


I would pick up some rice. Brown is expensive and so no need since this is a low level base humus.


Fresh greens! If you are like me and get really purist about such things then you already own electric shears and have been seen on hands and knees carefully harvesting the over grown yard your neighbours have been gossiping about for a while now and are placing these fresh greens carefully in some basket like a crazed loony but don't worry about them.


Purists avoid the grass the mower collected if we are not keeping the under side clan and free of oil.


So Rice has nutrients and is a lot of carbs. Alfalfa is green and also carbs and will fire up fast so caution is advised but let me explain.


I would be mixing the fresh greens and the pine shavings so that they physically mix well and I would be imagining little workers needing a bit of green and a bit of brown so getting these brown pine shavings to mix with the green plants is important.


At this point we could grab a hand full of clean healthy microbe rich soil and toss it in.


Wet and turn and more than likely if you have enough fresh green you will feel heat but after a short time that green will wilt to brown and the process will go cold so the fresh green is a natural and healthy way to kick it off but we need some more green is a while so I would add some alfalfa to mix as the secondary and it is physically smaller and as it wets the pellets will fall apart and much smaller pieces of green are available to exist in the smaller spaces.


Well we have a secondary nitrogen now and we can stand a secondary brown, rice.


Mixing and turning in alfalfa pellet and white rice into the green and brown of fresh plants and pine shavings now allow the microbes that make it eating the easy green and brown to shift to the harder greens and browns.


The pine shavings are at first easy brown but they turn into long term carbons and I like pine shavings honestly as a long term brown.


To those things I add stuff because i know that basically I can get the fire going one way or the other but understand this. Even I have problems with batches once in a while just like I feel insecure with cloning after a couple of years of not doing it.


Practice practice.


So What is your mix like and how is it doing?


I will try and remote assist you.


If you want to think of me as Randy High that's fine but I came out of the Cannabis closet and my Name is Ernst.


I'm sure the people of this fine site know I was destine to come out of the Cannabis Closet even before I left this group for ICMag.


Anyway I will do what I can. Fill me in on humidity and materials you have in your tumbler and you may need a second storage like a plastic tub.


I also recommend a hardware cloth screen for finishes but we can chat about that later.


In truth materials decompose all the time so we will be making a new batch of humus and it will get better with age so the first two composting cycles will have us with a work in progress but you will know you did excellent by the third grow.


Anyway bring me up to speed. I am sure my posts here are out dated so lets see what I can provide for help now.

 

You really need good air if you are in a closed space.


I built my wooden box carbon filter which is also in DIY here so that it had a pre-filter , carbon and a post filter. I felt comfortable with a big soil box and venting the garden into the room.


I am however eccentric and that is the sort of thing I would do to have a garden if I had no other option.


Yes I composted in it as well.. So it is really true if people follow my example that there is a physical requirement and the expertise to assess your environment before you tray anything as complicated as I have done.


No one can say I wasn't willing to make the effort. They actually hope i will break my fingers from time to time.


So yeah never underestimate vapours and bad air flow. I had left the stove on to warm the kitchen and when i remembered i went in to shut it off. All was fine until I bent down to get the Cat's water dish.


When I had a lung full of Co2 or Co I was down on the floor that fast. Lucky I was near the door and fresh cool sweet air filled the room.


So yeah use good venting and before you try to compost a huge pile any place stealthy like a closed garage for example be sure you know how to manage composting.


I know that some of you compost in the garage so you know what I am talking about.


Nice big carbon filter is king baby!


I run an 8 inch Hurricane on my box but I digress..v Oh if any old skool are reading that 8 inch does/has cost me on electric but it is still running hard!


Bought it want 8-9 years ago? Maybe 7.. Hell the HPS burnt out and it was marked 2004.. Wow.. Time flies..

 

Oohhhh ladies and gentlemen.... I have heat! I HAVE HEEATTTTT in my compost tumbler!!!!!! And steam came out when I went to look in it this morning! At first I thought maybe it was residual heat from the 81 degree day on Monday. Then I realized, no way in hell after it being 60 on Tuesday, and only 45 degrees outside today, that it's residual heat.


I dunno why this excites me so much, but probably cuz it's the first undertaking related to growing marijuana in which I have not been a complete failure thus far lol.


Chris: No it's not in my house, outside in full sun on my patio.


Ok Ernst. The humidity in the tumbler is good. I haven't added water for three days now because, quite frankly, it hasn't dried out since the last time I wet it down. I haven't added anything since my last post in which I enumerated which ingredients I added. So thus far I have in it:


2-3 cubic feet of sphagnum peat moss


5-6 handfuls of torn up leaves from last fall


2 lbs of long grain white rice


1 stale box of wheaties


1 box of chopped up lasagne


1 box of broken up spaghetti


6-7 blended up bananas


blended up old dried out apple chips


1 blended up bag of grapes


1 cup of epsom salts


can't remember exactly, but I think like 4 cups of dolomite lime


8 cups alfalfa meal


3 cups bone meal


3 cups of blood meal


A few days ago when I popped the lid to check on it, it had a strange sweet but slightly earthy smell to it. And when I say sweet, I don't mean like if you take a whiff of kool aid. It was a smell I've never experienced before, but was somehow unmistakably and strangely sweet. I also noticed that on the surfaces of all the newly added browns (rice, spaghetti, lasagne, clumps of pureed fruits) there was this white mesh looking substance. Looked kinda like the hair on spider legs, except it was white. My only guess is it was glomalin? I assumed the smell and the white mesh must be a good sign that microbial activity was kicking in.


As of right now it's, from my best guess, as perfectly moist as it could be, it's warm inside the pile, and it smells earthy and sweet, as opposed to rotten or like ammonia. So I guess everything is going well in there, just took longer than I expected since when I began this I had no notion of "easy" or "hard" browns and greens.


There is something quietly satisfying and... pure about this entire experience. Simply knowing that I've begun to attune myself to mother nature's call, instead of fighting her inevitable will.


The only worry I have now is burning plants with this compost. Therefore I think I will take two precautions before I actually use this soil once it has finished. First I will dilute this compost half and half with fresh peat. Second I will take a sample to the cooperative extension and have them send it out for a full soil analysis. That will give me a good baseline from which to compare and begin my next round of compost.

 

Simply put you have done well. I learned from each effort in composting and you will too. Each organic gardener is usually respected by other organic gardeners and we all have our own takes on things. You will settle into your own organic wisdom as time goes by.


Your enthusiasm is refreshing and reminds me of ( drum roll ) Me!


As for burning plants? The nitrogen should either escape as gas or be utilized in the bio-process. I doubt from the mix you posted that it will burn anything.


You will have control of the nitrogen cycle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_cycle and through liquid feeding and top dressing of organic materials. Ask me later for soil feeding ideas.


If you are really into this and like good toys er I mean tools you can get a Fog-it http://www.groworganic.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=fog+nozzle this makes wetting your mix in a tumbler more controllable if it is used on the end of a hand sprayer.





Also another toy I enjoy year after year is the compost thermometer. Mine is used every year to keep track of the compost piles and to monitor my black soldier fly bin. http://www.groworganic.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=compost+thermometer





Here is one link on rice.


http://www.goya.com/english/nutrition/basics_rice.html I use rice flour and ground coffee for top dressing with other things..


You can most certainly pay for an analysis but you don't need to for this. If you are like me then you will be disappointed with reading that but I assure you that you can skip a lab test expense for your compost because organic soil is like a battery and at first you will need to charge it and as humus forms it will stabilize and that is when an accurate test can be taken.


Buy more toys and save those dollars. Lab testing is a general indicator of chemical and mineral content but not one of how good an organic soil is in my opinion.


I have a suggestion, If you can add some green sand and double your bone meal I think you will have a really good mix.


So there you are. Cool on the sweet smell . A healthy composting "pile" will smell good like that because there is a dominance of oxygen using bacteria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobic_organism


When a pile smells like sewer or so then you have a dominance of non-oxygen using bacteria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_organism


Along with these guys are fungus which off the top of my head i cannot name. Your handfuls of leaves will benefit more from fungus than bacteria but as you may know they add scent to a hot pile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf_mold


When your pile cools down and the heat is low, ( compost thermometer has temperature ranges to show you the temperature zones), your pile now is in a state of equilibrium if all went well. pH will be in safe zones.


You will want to screen the finished compost so it is more uniform, looks professional and most important reason is smaller particles can be digested faster by a living soil.


I'll discuss aspects on diluting your finished compost but basically we will want to add new materials in ratios that don't completely bind needed nitrogen or cause excess nitrogen that may cause a soil with plants in it to heat up. I have done that before.


The basic idea is any soil with plants in it is a slow or "cold" pile. . The decay goes on forever if you are feeding the soil. Believe it or not the plants will have an impact on how it goes as well.


We feed the soil by top dressing organic materials. You can actually watch the materials decompose over the span of a few days with a living soil if they have been ground fine. http://compost.your-info-station.com/hot-versus-cold-composting.php App top dressing is in effect cold composting in a living soil.





There are a bazillion things I can say but lets take time to enjoy. Questions? It's really easier than most think.


So how about an update on your pile!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_food_web


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humus


There isn't an easy way to impart everything all at once so I'll take time to read along and try to be helpful.


Anyway.. Post away on your progress! Have you made your screen yet?

 

Respect is an understatement Ernst. I feel like you understand exactly how I feel when it comes to nature, life, and growing. My father was a Biology teacher for 35 years. I can still remember him taking my brothers and sisters and I into the forest and showing us salamanders, baby fish, and all types of plants. I also remember how hard he hit me when he caught my brother and me attempting to build a dam in a stream to catch and kill baby trout lol.


I have the utmost respect for you, and gratitude that I seem to have found such a willing professor.


I actually only intended to log in momentarily because I'm on my way out for a while. I have not yet built a screen (I guess in the excitement of trying to get the pile to take off I forgot about it). I went out this afternoon when I came home to check on it, and holy shit... I'm dumb for not taking a picture before I tumbled. The glomalin fibers and mesh was everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE. The level of the material has shrunk about 20%, and the (now completely black) compost is sticking to everything, including the inside of the lid. It smells even sweeter, and is starting to exhibit the slightest hint of that earthy, rich "black gold" garden soil smell.


I'm not positive what the temp is. My tumbler didn't come with a thermometer and I'm not sure where to buy one. So I'll check your links that you posted (thank you!) later on. I can tell you that by shoving my fingers in just 3-4" I was afraid that if I pushed any further I might burn myself, so I thought better of that.


Anyway, take care brother and happy growing! Btw, those are beautiful plants there in your soil bed. Wish mine looked half as pretty.

 

I'm going to momentarily hijack my own thread, then return to the original subject matter to ask the questions you were wondering if I had.


I just came home and set up my first compost tea brewing. I was hoping to get opinions on this. Earlier today I bought a 5 gallon bucket and lid. I then went to Petsmart and bought an aerator rated for a 40gal tank, a 3 gang valve, some plastic line, a 5" airstone, and two of the tiny little airstones. I got all the "plumbing" set up so that the 5" airstone would sit on the bottom in the center, and the two smaller ones would hang along the side wall of the bucket, in between which I planned to situate the sock full of meals.


I planned the ingredients in this tea for my 4 Dutch Passion Blueberry plants, which have been in veg for around 2 months now. ~10 days ago I took cuttings from them, then hardened them off / eventually moved them under a 1000W HPS (I didn't have a 1000W MH bulb, so I still have em on 18/6 but under a HPS). Many of the lower leaves have begun to yellow, and some of the upper leaves look really weird... a few are actually yellowing in the veins of the leaves, and staying green elsewhere. So this tea is designed to feed them.


In the sock I put:


1 cup alfalfa meal


1/4 cup kelp meal


1 cup General Organics Ancient Forest Humus (just a compost basically, but a very light one judging from the smell)


1/4 cup earthworm castings


I tied the sock to the bucket handle so that it would dangle in the water, suspended about halfway off the bottom.


I put 4 gallons distilled, pH 6.7-6.8 water in the bucket, and added directly to the water:


1 TBSP epsom salts


1 TBSP unsulphured molasses. Local store didn't have powder molasses so I had to use the messy pain in the ass liquid form.


Gave the sock a couple squeezes and smacks til the water looked good and murky, switched on the aerator, and called good game for the night.


Whatcha think? Please leme know if it sounds too strong so that I can dilute before I feed on Saturday after it brews for ~36 hours.


[end hijack]


Ok Ernst, your suggestions of what to add to the compost tumbler... Sure I suppose I can order some greensand to add. I'm not sure if the feed store where I got the alfalfa meal sells it. God I wanna go back and buy a 50 lbs. bag of kelp meal there so bad!! But it costs around $50 and I spent on the aerator today so I gotta wait on the kelp til payday. Too bad cuz I'm top dressing my lawn this weekend and I'd love to have kelp heh.


As far as the bone meal goes it makes me wonder, should I have that quantity of phosphorous in a soil mix that will be used at first for vegetation? I thought phosphorous was necessary (in smaller quantities than nitrogen) for proper rooting during veg, but that we shouldn't use too much of it until flowering?


At first when I thought about this, something that I read in the book "Teaming With Microbes: The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web" came to mind. The author was talking about how via manipulating exudates secreted into the rizosphere of the root zone, a plant can attract specific fungi and bacteria that will fix the exact nutrients it needs at any given time. So in this way if a plant is in flowering, it secretes whatever it needs to in order to attract microbes that will fix phosphorous into a plant available form for it.


However, does that really apply to us? The abovementioned microbes, when this compost pile is finished, will have already fixed that phosphorous into a plant available form. From what I've read, moreover, this plant available form happens to be water soluble. My point is that I thought once soil and nutrients were composted, the plant can no longer control what it's uptaking, because the nutrients (now perfectly available and water soluble) will make their way in with water, whether or not the plant "requests" them.


So have I misunderstood something here? I mean, is it not the case such that (furthermore, explicitly the entire point of composting) when you have a finished composted soil, all of the nutrients are now in plant available form? If this is the case, then I cannot understand why we want so much phosphorous for a soil mix that I intend to use during the vegetative state, as well as flowering. If I am wrong, please explain to me exactly what the point of composting is, as opposed to simply top dressing alfalfa / bone meal directly into soil mix before planting.


That's my (big) question for the night. Sometime over the weekend when the glomalin mesh is all over my compost tumbler again like confetti on black wedding tuxes, I'll snap a shot to post.


Grow well brothers and sisters. Peace.