The Debate vs.God, Religion & Government

Discussion in 'Smokers Lounge' started by snickelfritz, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. snickelfritz

    snickelfritz Weed College Hall Monitor

    It is well known that I am an Atheist. I do not believe in "God" or religion...
    I have been pondering the concept of it all...

    Throughout our recorded history, mankind has always felt the need to worship a higher being... Any being...
    So evil people took advantage of the situation and developed a "religion" to follow, in order to control how people worshiped, through superstition, fear and intimidation... & they gained power over men... They consumed this power and it intoxicated them... They craved more... They carefully developed monarchies... or dynasties... and, eventually... economies... to further control the people... It became a game to them... Like a giant game of "Stratego", or chess... They were the wealthy... The lives of millions, if not billions of people was nothing but a game to them...
    The world was nothing but an ant colony to be exploited... or destroyed... Their ancestors were evil... they had the advantage of deceit. They screwed people over and got away with it. Then one day, one rich bastard decided that he was so rich, he should promote himself to godhood... He decided to actually own people... Then there was no end to his depravity.
    Evil grew... Greed grew... The world suffered...

    The concept of religion was not forgotten... The human need to believe in a higher being was easily exploited. As the population grew, more superstitious rumors were exploited... More fear grew... The the bait was taken.

    The people decided they needed leadership to guide them in the right direction...
    Evil thought it would be good sport...
    The people were lulled into beliving that they should entrust others to making the "big decisions".

    The politician was born... Such is the downfall of man.


    We have been lulled into the belief that some people, or some families should be entrusted to making the decisions for millions of people...

    That we should allow others to be able to decide if we should live or die? ...
    The world has gone crazy... The game has gotten out of control!!!

    The filthy rich had become so powerful, they had practically become living gods! They called themselves by different names because evil had fluorished so well... They were known by names like Zeus, Athena, Marz...
    Ramzez...

    There were gods & goddesses.. demigods, witches, demons, and rampant superstition... Their hold on us was absolute.


    The idea that one person could have absolute power over the lives and deaths omillions became an accepted fact... The proper application of fear, religious superstitutions, and lies zealed the deal... They had complete control over our lives...

    But, there were loopholes in the plan... The number of filthy rich was allowed to prosper... More people thought they were better than those that came before us... the worse off things became.

    There was competition in the ranks of the gods... The lives of millions was gambled on a whim.

    The people were now lulled into the false belief of patriotism... For "God, king and country".... And the power of evil prospered... The entire world was in jeopardy! No longer, was it confined to single continents...

    The wealthy elites were in control of the entire planet! But they were still greedy!

    They didn't want what they already had... They wanted what their fellow filthy rich had too. Evil had completely destroyed them... They care not for the welfare of their subjects. Wars were fought... Sometimes the people won... Sometimes they didn't...

    The wealthy becamy wary of the risk to their own control... The people became angry... the idea of revolution, ideas of independende and freedom began to began to prosper.... The rich didn't know how to handle the growing dissent... Bureaucracy grew... Evil was able to lead others into temptation...Corruption reigned rampant...
    As corruption grew, so did power... Laws became more draconian... The people suffered.

    They were taxed into submission. The rich owned everything.., The barter system could no longer sustain you... Money had been invented...

    And with money... grew the need for banks... With banks, another source of greed... The older rich families became jealous and afraid of those that were beneath them for so long, but rizing in power. People were killed... Enslaved... Persecuted... Prosecuted... Tried... Imorisoned... Tortured... or killed at the whim of the filthy rich, dirty politician,

    Unless the people of the world realize that the universe itself is god, and we are just a miniscule part of something greater... Not encumbered by religion or lesser men.
    And, they must also realize that the religions of the world have always competed with the richest of the world... Power and wealth are equals... For one cannot exist without the other... Both sides fluorished... But greed was too great... Wars began to be fought over religion and ideals... And, the people suffered... Seems like a neverending story, doesn't it?


    Is it strange that there are so many ancient civilizations point to the year 2012 as the year of great change?

    Dec. 21st, 2012 does not have to be the end of the world... According to the Mayan traditions, It could be the birth of a new begining. Simply the end of an age and the begining of another. If the people of the world would simply say "No more!" Perhaps it is time for the people of the world to take a stand against tyranny!! Take the power away from the filthy rich & knock them down a peg or two... The people have become educated... The game is not as easy as it used to be... If enough of the people of the world revolt the world can truly be free. If enough soldiers and cops of the world question and refuse orders that seem immoral, illegal... Or in some places... Unconstitutional...

    If those in power have their say, the world population will be all but destroyed... Reduced to a more "managable number", by using "invented prophecy" from a 1 or 2 thousand years ago, to influence people to conform to their will... The seeds of revolution are sewn... Wars are fought... The people suffer and die... The cycle continues...

    Civilizations have been built and destroyed...
    People have been exploited, and enslaved throughout our known history.. It has all happened time & time again... Laws of the unjust rule the masses, and, given enough time, destruction is guaranteed...

    Why does it have to be this way again?

    The rich and / or powerful are the true problem... The true evil in the world... Religion is a lie... No one should tell you who or what to worship. Belief should be more than just blind faith. You must seek the truth for yourself... Those that seek violence are evil. Those that order others to commit violence are evil... Those willing to risk their lives for the sake of true freedom are to be commended.
    If we as a people can learn to reject those that would order us to kill for their selfish reasons... Reject the need for oil and switch to affordable, recyclable, and biodegradeable fuel sources like hemp and hydrogen... And pursue the benefits of a responsible, and peaceful, industrial society, we will never prosper as a people and take our proper place amongst the stars.
    Until then, we will never truly understand the universe... We will never understand the true goncept of what this enigmatic concept of a "God" is.
    Until then, it is all a pipe deram. Spoon fed to the masses by a corrupt and heirarchigal establishment.
    We will never be allowed to take our place in the universe if we do not first know peace amongst ourselves...

     
    TheApprentice likes this.
  2. phatkojak

    phatkojak Developed Alternating Nodes

    Why me?


    Why me?


    You pointed to something important: Unless the people of the world realize that the universe itself is god, and we are just a minuscule part of something greater... Not encumbered by religion or lesser men.


    Some understand. Most have taken advantage of religion/government/power to dominate another. I'm not going to get religious or anything, I believe. I believe there is more than what we understand to be true. I believe that all religions should be one. Man has changed the purity to fit his/her need. Imagine the evolution of the world without religion. Yet, religion has been used by the powerful to fit their need.


    To find that nirvana is truth. Some can understand it. Most unfortunately don't, and we have what we have. Don't doubt the truth, but find it for yourself. Only you know what the truth really is, right?


    :bong2: OK - I have to say I've been vaping like a fool with my Bob Marley's Best and suckin down a couple Kessler and Cokes while watching the MLS cup playoffs. And then someone asks about religion, power, politics all in the same thread; or something like that. Shit - what was I to do but to throw it down?


    I'm Phat, and I'm out. Posting without preview.


    ~Kojak
     
  3. puffin

    puffin Developed Alternating Nodes

    Very well written and a good read.


    Religion is bullshit. Politics is bullshit. They are opiates used to control the masses. Evil is certainly behind pushing the lies onto people but the question I have is why do people in general keep believing this bullshit. Even when things don't add up most people will choose to ignore it cause they don't want to deal. Even when people no longer believe in the bullshit they still do not know how to address it.



    What in the human psyche prevents people from being able to deal with it?



    Humanity has brought itself to this point, we are not victims and the only way clear of it now would be for humanity to fix itself from within. If individuals were aligned with the universe in the first place evil would not be as pervasive as it is today. If one knows the self then it easier to spot and avoid bullshit.



    Which is why there is such a campaign to jam the psyche with as much mind-numbing bullshit as they can get away with. People can't handle looking at themselves and addressing what they find because they have been conditioned that way.






    Reading, researching and learning takes up a large part of my free time. Throughout all of those subjects I like to take away the hope that
    since duality is always present in the universe and in man, evil can only theoretically continue for so long without good finding a way to balance the equation. Either through man finding a way to align and balance himself or the universal forces doing it instead.


    What can be done? Don't buy the bullshit of separation in all the forms that it is sold. Class, religion, race, and good guys vs. bad guys. Know thyself...



    To separate oneself or one’s group-to say, “Oh, no, we are different” - is to set oneself against wholeness. To separate ourselves from the whole is to cut our options and erect the walls of our own prison. When we create duality in our thoughts and lives, we have created opposition. -Joseph Campbell





    "There is no spoon..." :rofl: just kidding


    Older documentary on the lineage of evil in the world -



    Ring of Power - Part III: Trail of the Pharaohs



    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4675077383139148549#57m19s


    ya got me thinking this morning snickelfritz. Thanks for letting me ramble...





     
  4. puffin

    puffin Developed Alternating Nodes

    Probably can't warn anyone anymore than those who came before us were able to warn us. History is written by the winners and tends to be inaccurate so one can't really count on that. It is easy then to say that the winners of today's conflicts will write what ever the hell they want and people 3000 years from now won't know the difference. It's been done again and again.


    History repeats itself especially when people didn't catch on the first time, so if more people were to become aware of themselves and the world around them and do what it takes to make the necessary corrections where deficiencies are found the cycle can complete and move on... if not then...repeat. Similar patterns can also be seen in an individual's life.


    We would not have to warn if we just grew past it in our own lives. That's a big if though.


    It is all a part of a cycle where man is in darkness and ignorance rubbing sticks together and goes to developing advances in consciousness, spirituality and technology but eventually annihilates itself with what it has learned. Some would say it has happened many times...I don't know personally.


    "I for one don't mind the ignorance of the masses."


    I have to say that it bothers me... just in that I wish it was different. I think it could be better. Anyone that wants to see the world for what it is can certainly do so it is hidden in plain sight for all to see and only a few to know what it means. People don't care... they want to be distracted and entertained.


    I can understand what you are saying about your supposed to be here to experience it I just wish I could do more to change it. I can only change myself and my perceptions though.


    I am also looking forward to changes coming as they always do :wink:
     
  5. Toker2

    Toker2 Looking at a hot ass

    Atheists seem to forget we have seen their Utopias,


    Stalin 30-50 million dead an legendary oppression, Mao Killed 100 million in china, These were ''Godless'' states.


    I could mention every Atheist regime and a BLOODBATH would follow


    the Khmer rouge, Pol POT, ....Is this to say all atheist feel like these men?


    No , Neither do all Christians favor war.
     
  6. Toker2

    Toker2 Looking at a hot ass

    What do you call Mao's own purge on his own people?


    Stalins state kept killing after him as did Red China.


    Religions, Atheism Included , as bad as atheists hate to hear it


    [it takes faith to say there is no God]---Have been doing all kinds of horror In God and Christ name, or no gods name.


    He warned men this would happen, He left instructions on how to discern


    these folks, some have tried , most were killed , by the elitists who's


    causes were not of God.


    Simply put anything that happened in Christs name that had to do with war


    was bullshit and if the sheeple had read the scriptures themselves they would have know it,,,,,would it have made a difference?


    I suspect the leaders would have put a sword to any ones head who resisted.


    Point is Christianity is a relationship with God, Not a religion.


    Jesus said he could ask His Father for 3 legions of angles if he wanted


    and God would have granted it, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world


    therefore his followers do no fight.


    imho
     
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  7. TheApprentice

    TheApprentice Retired.

    Money:the mahanic principle


    Interesting thread Snick:ebert: Snick,me and you agree on most things,you watch the same intenet films as me and visit the same sites,etc,i agree with all your post apart from the bit about aetheism,not to say your wrong,just that i believe in some sort of creator thats all,but the replies are all interesting,im just adding to the thread so please no-one shoot me down,im not saying i know best,im a seeker and im searching low and high(to quote pete townsend:icon_wink:)


    Snick i respect your beliefs even though me myself happen to believe in a creator.I try not to broach this topic cos people all write you off as a bible basher or a god botherer,lol,i am none of them.I use the bible,the torah,the hindu texts,etc,etc as a reference ,nothing more.I dont try impose my thoughts on anyone cos im not sure if im right or wrong on many things,i go with my gut and thats it.I dont buy into all these man made belief systems that TBH only confuse us more and blur the truth IMO.


    The system of money is based on "the mahanic principle" which was taught to Cain. Satan stands as the initiator of this system,first revealed to Cain,who in turn revealed it to his followers.The objective of this money system was to teach Cain and his followers the trade of turning human life into property.Evil and conspiring men then formed secret combinations that then swept across oceans and across time.


    Im a big reader of revelations,the book intrigues me very much.When you read the book of revelations and all about the 'false lamb' and the whore of the earth,it quickly becomes apparent that the false lamb is a false prophet peddling a false religion or maybe several.If a false lamb is there to distract us from learning the truth about the real lamb by way of deception and distraction then it makes perfect sense that false religons mixed with worship of a money system is the perfect way to do this.The whore of the earth is the system of money which is idolatry in form,thus replacing the old worship of our creator with a worship of manmade monetry idols.Think about it,people are more concerned with the latest car,the latest games console,the latest clothing,etc,etc... ALL items bought and sold with MONEY.These things are not essential things we NEED,but "merchants" have convinced us we do,these merchants are the same people who thrive on the system of greed and corruption created through the money system or the mahanic principle.


    These "merchants" are the same ones Jesus is attributed as saying about: "it would be better had they never been born",Jesus also said "neither a borrower nor a lender be",maybe Jesus knew the origins of money and the principle behind it for him to say these things:ponder:


    It also says in the bible that prior to the 2nd coming,etc ,that religion will be a by-word for peculiar.Now i dont attend any religous ceremonies but i DO believe in a creator and i do believe that life is infinite ,when we die i believe all we do is move on to a different stage just like a dying star.The Egyptians,the Mayans,etc ,they all had great wisdom and we still dont understand how they did many things even now.Well they all had a belief in some kind of creator,WHY?Surely people so wise must have had good reason to believe this?Maybe the source of their beliefs was the same source of their wisdom:ponder:


    I think at one time there was a TRUE religon on this earth but through lack of belief or mankinds arrogance we lost track of the trtuh and all we have now is mostly manmade belief systems,i believe every religion has truth in it but that it has lost its way from the path of truth.But that doesnt mean that there is simply no creator or no truth in all the earths sacred texts.


    I just think in this day and age many people are too occupied with temporal things ,materialistsic things and to clear their conscience they absolve themselves from any wrong doing by saying "relgion is bullshit". I dont think it helps by having so many religious people out there who in a lot of cases are more greedy,more sinful,more zealous than the "heathen" they rally against. Iv seen too much in my life and had too many expericnes to just write religon of as a sham or put it in the same bracket as other manmade systems like money.This is just my opnion,i dont judge others on their beliefs against mines cos im still learning in life what my beliefs actually are,all im saying is i believe that we have some sort of creator and if that is so then surely they have a purpose and a plan for us?


    Why would they create all this ,surely not to stand back and marvel at it as if they just completed a game of SIMS?Nah theres more to life than living and dying and all the BS in between.Dont get me wrong,it would be EASIER for ME to believe the opposite.


    I really wish i had the time and the space to delve deeper into this cos at a quick glance it might seem a lot of hocus pocus and thats cos it is taken out of context.If i was arguing a point maybe id feel inclined to do just that but im not arguing a point,im just putting forward a viewpoint to ponder.I gotta say and iv said it beofre,i firmly believe in a creator,i dont buy all this modern day belief that science THEORISES on saying about a big bang and all the other subject matter of physics,etc.For every religious concept you can bet that man or physcis has a theory to counter it,maybe instead of trying to counter every religious notiuon we should try and seek the truth rather thantry to prove it wrong.Even today many scientist are starting to admit there is much they cannot explian like singularity among a plethersa of things.Sure there was a big bang,but whose to say that 'big bang' wasnt purposely created as part of a creation process?To have science boldy declare they understand and know our origins isnt just naive,its frankly arrogant IMHO.


    It is all just theories which i guess is what religion is too.I just find it hard to grasp that mankind since beginning has believed in something that isnt true,the ancients have forgotten more than all our combined modernday knowledge,surely it is time we looked to the past for answers and not our own understanding:ponder: I know i feel like im just tipping the iceberg when it ocmes to learning about the concept of a cresator aswell as whats bullshit and whats not but like my signature says below :To Live In The World Without Becoming Aware Of The Meaning Of The World Is Like Wandering About In A Great Library Without Touching The Books. (A bit of esoteric wisdom,lol) The freemasons in this regard are wise men,they hold no one religion as sacred or true but they believe there is truth in all of them and freemasons lean not to their own understanding but to that of the ancients who came before us,i just cant help thinking that the answers to our future lie deeply buried and hidden in our past,just my :2c: though.Peace:ebert:
     
    TheCarpenter likes this.
  8. puffin

    puffin Developed Alternating Nodes

    I personally believe that there is a force higher than myself call it god or the intangible yet ever-present force I am certain exists. Atheism never sat quite right with me...it's just too absolute. lol. It is a deep subject which runs emotionally high at times but I enjoy all points of view and especially like learning about them. It's interesting.


    I say religion is bullshit meaning that organized religion which exploits people's desire to connect with their source to make money is bullshit. Great point on money by the way. Hit that subject dead on imo. So, religion it is corrupted and evil which in some form or another it usually is than it's bullshit. Religion is also created by man just like money. I don't go to church to refocus, cleanse my sins and re-align because I can do that myself. I don't need the intermediary to make that connection. Some do need/want that go between, some don't and some don't believe in anything.


    Learning everything I can about a subject from multiple sources and then forming an educated opinion is the way I do things and when I did this with religion it just didn't stand up to the scrutiny. Good lessons, ancient knowledge (which I love) and a twisted course in history but deserving of blind faith and a cut of my money. no sale...


    Religion can also be considered bullshit because the stories and wisdom contained in the religions of the world are not original stories that are individual and independent of one another. From what I have learned I believe that they were based on much, much older stories and teachings. Throughout the world the creation stories, myths and oral traditions all have similar themes. Makes me wonder where those ideas and stories came from originally. How can the Egyptians, Sumerians, Aborigines, tribes from Africa such as the Dogon and empires in south America (as well as others) all have creation stories of how they came into being with strikingly similar features? Those are the same features, symbols and archetypes that are seen in religion today. That's a whole other topic though.


    I have way to many questions to start ruling out answers.


    Really enjoyed reading everyone's responses.
     
  9. morel

    morel Guest

    I must say that you have laid out most all problems with religion and the down fall of man kind. If you were to remove all of man kinds problems and remove all mans effects upon the universe, you can not fail to see that there is a Creator being. Who you choose worship or not to worship is your choice. It is not our opinion that will change the creators beings mind set, but us that must recognize the creator.
     
  10. Toker2

    Toker2 Looking at a hot ass

    LOL ya i know man,,,,,,,I have debated athiests for years, I know the drill


    well......I do respect anyones right to belive what they want to.


    A quote from a friend......just wondering what your thought on it were

     
  11. 4F2C0J

    4F2C0J STAYYY FLYYY

    Religon is just another way to brainwash people and get them to "donate" a percentage of their income. Oh and how to win votes, people that i know who were brainwashed by such a cult have 0% freethinking, sciencetific thinking, politcal thinking and try and convince everyone they know to join their "Religon" so we can spend the best years of are life in some cloud together in the afterlife lol.


    Sorry to anyone offended, were all entitled to our own freethinking.


    And yes im going to hell if your a true believer, or ill be burned and cremated and have no purpose left on earth other then to float around with dust, or to rot in some grave and live with worms etc.
     
  12. Budweiser 3

    Budweiser 3 Cured Fat Sticky Bud

    hhhmmmmm


    well, "Hope, n Faith"..are what i live by and will die by!:wink:
     
  13. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    Been lurking for awhile...but can't resist a good theological tantrum..er..um...debate.


    The way I see it is that the multi faceted nature of every major religion forces them into a paradox of competing beliefs. That paradox then denies the very nature of what they each purport to own. Truth, Absolute Truth. How can any one umbrella of deistic belief encompass two or more vying factions that claim ownership of the "correct" way in which to interpret it's creator's truths? A simple example for believers in a Judeo/Christian God is this.....Are Jews, Catholics, Methodists, Mormons or Pentacostal's correct in interpretation? According to most of them if I blow this own I'm doomed.


    One simply must be inherently wrong. If you extrapolate that basic unavoidable truth how then can you choose from the thousands of facets of every religion to find the one that carries the single absolute truth? The obvious answer is, you can't.


    My belief runs closer to objectivism in the classic Randian sense. That outside of harming another, a man is accountable only to himself and his own standards. That his judge is the person he sees in the mirror and society overall by the legacy he chooses to build.


    In my humble opinion.....Any spiritual or faith based belief that may, or may not, have been is gone. That if there once was a single, knowable, theistic truth that it has long been lost to politics, power, thoughtlessness and the shear fallibility of humankind.


    Hey....wanna know sumthin.........first time I been stoned in weeks....verrry cool. Gonna go ramble something else somewhere...cheers,
     
  14. puffin

    puffin Developed Alternating Nodes

  15. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    Ya know, it's kinda sad when we need to look to comics for philosophical reason.


    What's interesting about objectivism Puff? As I see it the best good we can do for ourselves and society is to better our own existence as best we are able.


    cheers,
     
  16. puffin

    puffin Developed Alternating Nodes

    Well, to speak in terms of Objectivism, it is interesting because it is interesting. I am not being a smart ass I mean that it is an interesting concept and when I came across Rand's body of work for the first time it took me back with the level of detail and certainty expressed in it.


    I particularly agree with this -


    Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life. - Ayn Rand


    I just like comedy sometimes making light of such heavy topics can be helpful and everyone needs a laugh now and then. I love the topic of philosophy but I was not sure of exactly how in depth with it to get here.


    How about a non-comical video reference

     
  17. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    Wasn't bashing comic philosophy. I think some of the most honest thought comes from comics now-a-days. It's just sad that we have very few Locke's or Hume's or Rand's putting forth in our generation.


    Didn't think you were being a smart ass. Seriously wanted to know what you found interesting about an objectivist outlook. For me it cuts to the core of who we are. Think about it.:icon_scratch:


    Even in a theistic belief system it still comes down to how a person views how their creator will react to their own personal behavior. If I think I'm behaving badly my assumption is then transferred to my higher power for presumed judgement.


    Objecivism just removes the middle man....as it were....and puts the responsibilty for a good and just life back where it belongs.


    cheers,
     
    puffin likes this.
  18. blackprince11

    blackprince11 Prince of the Hindu Kush

    I can imagine that!

    I can, and if reason and logic had ruled the day instead of mysticism and superstition there's no telling how far we'd be as a species. All this hatred and greed and death and corruption spawned by religion has brought us so out of sync not only with eachother but with the universe that we could have psychic powers or could've evolved into beings of pure light by now!!! Who knows?
     
  19. blackprince11

    blackprince11 Prince of the Hindu Kush

    Theater for the masses!!! Wake-up!!!

    The U.S.S.R. was the brainchild of the international banking eliete. Stalins "Great Purge" from 1932-38 resulted in the deaths of anywhere from 2,000,000 to 5,000,000 Russians. 500,000 were suspected of being funneled through the extensive Russian Gulag system, all at the behest of Joseph Stalin. Most of the people purged were the rich whose wealth was absorbed by the state and was celebrated as "The Peoples movement" to reclaim riches made off of the backs of the poor by the rich and their economic trickery i.e. "capitalism".


    It all was a farce!!! The rich, educated, and wealthy, Russian eliete HAD to be dealt with!!! They were a threat!!! It was nothing more than the international banking eliete punishing and acquiring the wealth of the backers of Czar Nicholas who had survived the Bolshivik Revolution in 1917 that left Czar Nichloas and the royal family dead and had urshered in exactly what Czar Nicholas and his supporters at the top of the Russian foodchain feared the most; a national central bank that would inevedably transfer all of their wealth out of Russia and into the hands of the international bankers. Kind of like what's happening to the U.S. right now!!!


    All the B.S. about Communism/Socialism vs. Capitalism/Free Market, U.S.A. vs. Russia, C.I.A. vs. K.G.B. was theater for the masses. Kind of like the Democrat vs. Republican thing! It's all theater!!! They manipulate godliness AND godlessness and peoples attitude towards those concepts as they see fit!!! Smoke and mirrors, man! Smoke and mirrors!!!
     
    snickelfritz likes this.
  20. puffin

    puffin Developed Alternating Nodes

    The part about being a smart ass was meant to go with what I had said right before it -


    "Well, to speak in terms of Objectivism, it is interesting because it is interesting. I am not being a smart ass I mean that it is an interesting concept and when I came across Rand's body of work for the first time it took me back with the level of detail and certainty expressed in it."


    As in I am not being a smart ass by saying Objectivism is interesting because it is interesting since that is an answer a Objectivist would give. It was supposed to be funny... well it was funny to me anyway :laughing1:


    Seriously though I would certainly say that I hold many convictions similar if not identical to Objectivism. I agree that it does cut to the core of it by striping away all the nonsense or non-logic.


    The part about it that is so interesting for me is it's basis in logic and not feeling. I had spent so long lost in wondering why the world is the way it is and being pissed about my circumstances. When I came across this concept it seemed to be a way to make sense of it. Or at least to make sense of what went wrong in all of what I seen around me and within me.


    "Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears." - Rand


    This statement was comforting to me at a time when people around me were trying to sway me from my own perceptions of reality with their insistence that because they felt that way about it should define MY reality as well. Reality is what it is no matter how you feel about it or what you think of it. That relieved me of the burden of having to let others provide my perceptions for me.


    The political ideas are also very interesting especially since this was introduced at the beginning of the last century and yet still holds true if not was predictive of what we see today in politics, finance and the human condition in general. That kind of staying power speaks to the strength of Rand's ideas. Her absolute conviction and certainty are also striking as is the fact that she did not wait for others to tell her what to think. She observed the world around her and formulated her own concepts.


    Which is why I believe there are not many great thinkers or philosophers today. Most are used to being told what to think which is a huge problem in academia. Straying from the standard line of thought is highly discouraged and leads imo to what we have now which is so many followers and not enough leaders or free-thinkers. The educational system of today is not designed to create Aristotles' or Nietzsches' it creates obedient workers.


    There are some good ideas to be found in the thinkers of today but their information and ideas are harder to find and often attacked and swept under the rug. Perhaps comedians use that forum to get their ideas out because it is also more easily understood and accepted in that form.


    whew... now where did I put that bowl? :bong2:
     

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