Tobacco Mosaic Virus

Discussion in 'Pests and Plant Problems' started by OldSmokey, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. OldSmokey

    OldSmokey Registered Users

    About three years ago, I started a thread in here, thinking that I had somehow messed up my plant’s DNA by “cloning the clone” repeatedly, but apparently that doesn’t work that way. The general consensus was that the mutant leaf problem would clear up by itself. And it seemed to, but if I looked close enough, it was still there and has been ever since. I guess I’ve gotten used to seeing it as “just how the plant grows”. Here’s a pic of the problem 3 years back. That’s a thrip on the right.

    Mid-July, we had a heat wave around here and my mom cabinet got a little too warm and my 2 bonsai moms went nuts. Every leaf on both plants had a mutant wackiness to it. There weren’t any branches unaffected.

    This was taken in the second week of flower and while these two look a lot happier than the other plants, they’re doing it too, but it’s much more subtle. These plants are from the same batch as the moms.

    8 (of 12) weeks into flower. As flowering plants, they don’t really look too bad, but…

    I was checking out the monthly topics over at and came across some pictures of some plants that had a familiar look to them. Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV): What is Causing Splotchy Leaves?
    Between that article and a bit of Googling, I’ve come to realize that I might have a serious problem:

    If what I’m seeing is TMV or one of the other 4 or 5 virus variants that seem to affect cannabis, how would I ever get rid of it? In three years, it’s got to be all over everything around here, including all the nice bud I’ve been enjoying.

    Some stuff I read about TMV:

    TMV can lay dormant for 10+ years.

    It was the first virus ever discovered.

    We don’t know absolutely for sure if cannabis can get it…. But if it can, it’s not curable. Oh fucking goody…

    Dead plant material can transfer viruses. (That would mean tasty bud too, like from a dispensary. I’ve never thought much about washing my hands before touching my plants, but I’m starting to get used to the habit.)

    It can be present in tobacco, but whiteflies, and thrips can also carry it.

    It doesn’t seem to affect people. (Good thing.)

    They say it can cause a 25% loss in yield. While I’d love to see 25% more yield, what I’ve been getting doesn’t really seem out of line for the space and light.

    Whatever my plant’s got, it seems systemic, it passes easily to clones, and is lots more of a problem in veg. It also seems to generate very weird deformities when the plants get too hot. And it wasn’t there the first couple of years that I grew this pheno.

    Here’s a funky leaf sticking out of a bud.

    SO…. It’s looking like she needs to get tossed and I need to start over. Do they seem a little too dry? Maybe it’s from sitting on the table for several weeks as I contemplated contagious cannabis diseases.

    Got 3 more 5 year-old KF Fem seeds left… Two are relaxing in a wet paper towel after an overnight swim.


    PS I’ve spent real a long time just lately looking at the leaves of other plants on the internet. I don’t see signs of this stuff anywhere, but a couple of plants around here got a suspicious look to them:

    Blazer’s Candyland

    Mr. G’s new sprouts from Chim Chiminey

    Check ‘em out…. I hope I’m mistaken.
  2. Discorilla

    Discorilla Shining like a Discoball!

    The general consensus on TMV is that there are no documented cases of it occurring in Cannabis. Most of the time, it is russet mites, which have been a huge problem for many of the growers I know this year. Russet mites will cause leaf deformities and also cause leaves to go necrotic.

    The leaf discoloration that I am seeing in the photo also looks like Variegation, which a lot of strains have been showing up with this. There are some growers that argue that this can be cured over time with vitamins and aminos, but I haven't had these variegated plants around long enough to test this theory. Some really amazing strains have this tendency, though.
  3. blazerwill420

    blazerwill420 Fuck AUMA

    I am very familiar with tmv, my plants don't have it. Some of my plants are all fucked up though from that orchid crap I used. What my candyland does that is pretty freaky, in hydro at about week five the calyxs swell so bad that it looks like they seeded. This happens every time. And mites, well, I grow outside and I don't put anything on my plants but bt so....
  4. OldSmokey

    OldSmokey Registered Users

    Disco, that article at Growweedeasy had some pics of mite damage, but it's quite different from what I see. The mites seem to cause twists in the leaves and weird shininess. What I've got are flat leaves with one side of the leaf "finger" bent sideways because the one side didn't develop properly. The under-developed side typically has a lighter green mosaic pattern, but the leaves aren't really necrotic, more like under-developed. It seems like during times of lots of stress, both sides of the leaf "fingers" can be affected. Less stress, maybe only one side, causing the curve.

    Blazer, have you seen it in cannabis?

    What concerns me the most about this is that it just showed up one day and I'm still not 100% sure what it is or how to prevent it. It makes vegging in Hempy a real slow process.

    On a positive note, one of my seeds has a tail just barely visible.
  5. blazerwill420

    blazerwill420 Fuck AUMA

    Ive never seen it on cannabis. Russet and broad mite damage looks very similar to tmv. If you have russets you need about a 1000x scope to even see them. They look like maggots.
  6. blazerwill420

    blazerwill420 Fuck AUMA

    The other thing with the russets, when the plants flower you'll get what looks like macro/micro nutrient lockout meaning yellowing from the top down and you won't be able to stop it.
  7. Discorilla

    Discorilla Shining like a Discoball!

    That was the Variegation part I mentioned at the bottom. A lot of the growers I talk to on Facebook say that could be a vitamin and amino deficiency. It can be a lighter green or straight yellow.
  8. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    Russets seems an odd call, but it's easy enough to check with a loupe or cheap hand microscope. If you see mites, you got mites. It's odd for having been going on so long and you haven't been losing a lot of plants. The damage on flowering plants in your pics seems minimal for a mature mite infestation that's been going on for years. I'd expect it to be worse and continuing to get worse as every month.

    Thinking I'd be leaning more toward a virus than a pest.

    If you got Russets it's a rough one from what I've heard. Never dealt with them myself. Before resorting to the nasty stuff like Azamax it might be a good idea to try something like Met52. Either way, it's one of the more difficult beasts to eradicate.

    If you have a virus you're kinda screwed without tearing it all down, washing, starting new plants. Do you have strains that appear more resistant?
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  9. OldSmokey

    OldSmokey Registered Users

    Disco, I looked up "variegation" and there are a lot of pics that look just like my plants, as well as lots of threads about it on other sites. It's surprising that we don't know exactly what this is.

    Blazer, I'll take a close look for mites. I haven't had much trouble with deficiencies, other than a little bit of leaf drop below the canopy.

    Res, other than a Sannie's Jack I tried a few grows back, this is the only plant I've grown for about 6 years, so nothing to compare it to. I do recall the Jack was a happier plant...

    So, maybe russet or broad mites, maybe lacking in vitamins or aminos, maybe a virus, and from other sites: maybe low on iron, maybe just a random mutation.

    I'm off to hunt mites...
  10. blazerwill420

    blazerwill420 Fuck AUMA

    Off topic but if I had killing fields and sannies jack and could only grow one of them I'd grow the sannies jack. Good luck figuring your issue out.

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