When the revolution begins I'll be high in the mountains ready to defend my cabin and homestead! All GK'ers that are willing to fight for true freedom and take up arms to defend your brothers and sisters against the tyrannical new world order that is taking shape and plans to take your freedoms away regardless of your ethnicity, religion, gender, or age, will be welcome to join me on my mountain top. :qright1:
Wow. Someone mentioned something about "well-read" and "well spoken". Ya know, knowledge without wisdom is just a laod of books on the back of an ass. A Phillipino Armscorp brand M200 .38 special revolver is tougher than a POS Taurus. No offense to Taurus owners.. also Communists make damn good weapons!! I own a few com-bloc made weapons and I trust them to be tougher, more reliable than my american-made guns and almost as accurate. Talking shit about someone's family isn't cool, that was crossing the line. Hank, here's a problem I think we're all having. You're avoiding the primary point here and have a habit of dodging direct questions, beating around the bush. and putting words in people's mouths, so to speak. You're regualrly offensive even when you're "not trying" to be, and then you come up with all sorts of "corner-points" to weave around the actual discussion and try to make it seem like it's always the other person, and only the other person to have a bad attitude and saying things not making sense or whatever. Here's how I feel about it. I've said I don't want certain ppl to have certain weapons. I'll wait patiently and not whine or complain while a back-ground check is conducted. Even after a 24-hour delay in a shot-gun purchase, I still thanked the shop workers and said "no problem" when they apologized for the delay. What I WON'T do is pay for a permit to carry a weapon. I see this as not much different than robbing an old man of his cane because he might attack someone with it. I only don't wear it into banks.. for some reason that makes bank tellers nervous.
Don't speak for everyone and I haven't avoided anything. I've said very clearly from the beginning that I am against a total ban on guns, but for controlling them. You, and a few others, seem to agree with me as that's what background checks are, a form of control. Not EVERYBODY can legally buy a gun. So, we are basically agreeing on the main point. The degree of control is debatable, but you, Canna, and GlitterPixie (that I can recall) agree with my position on the primary point. Also, I don't beat around the bush or put words in anyone's mouth and it's my perogative if I choose not to answer a question. Maybe I just want to think about it a for a while longer. I don't answer every single comment directed toward me, because some aren't worth answering.
SW- My issue with gun control legislation is very simple and my annoyance with discussing the topic is equally simple. Incursion into personal freedoms and State's Rights, as laid out in the Constitution, should be done with great care and only under the most extreme scrutiny. As I mentioned earlier, incrementalism in politics is real and MUST be weighed into the equation. In discussions (here and in real life) that try to address this advocates of issues that sidestep original intent or in someway trade liberties for believed safety or security usually degrade into passing off the concern as some type of lunacy based on fear, paranoia or antiquated beliefs. Rather than address the concern it is intellectually easier for them to go with the less painful route of immediate action while categorizing those who question the possible end result as somehow misguided or acting out of some inferior agenda. I'm not saying that those I disagree with are necessarily wrong. Just that they need to fully understand the possible ramifications of the unintended consequences of a given action. cheers,
If all guns were banned in all places in all countries, eventually, there would be no more and the world would be a much safer place, but that would have to include all govts.....which will never happen....which is why I choose not to say a lot about the subject. But, in a perfect world, I wish they were never invented in the first place. I hate them. I really do. Lost someone once, never gonna get over my utter and extreme hatred of all things "gun". But, I don't hate people who own them or anything, just the instruments of death themselves.
Now you see this is the same damned argument I've seen a hundred times on this site re gun control. If guns are banned the crims win. LOL bullshit!!!!!!! That argument doesn’t hold water. The US has the highest gun death rate in the developed world, followed by Finland and Switzerland. What have these 3 countries have in common? Guns are legal and ownership is encouraged. Murder and suicide rates are directly related to gun ownership rates. Fact! I live in the UK the vast majority of guns are illegal and getting a legal one is an uber fook on. If you want an illegal one, yes you can get them if you ask around and yes I know ppl who have them. UK crims do have guns, lots of them. Do they shoot ppl, not really. It happens, but it’s very rare. If you use a gun in the UK the police come down on you like a ton of bricks. It’s not worth it. Plus, murder tends to be a split second thing. If guns are about ppl get shot. It’s too easy to kill with a gun. I’m not saying the UK doesn’t have murders, it does, but the murder rate is tiny compared to the US. Is that because UK citizens are more civilised and nicer to each other? Are they fuck! It’s purely down to the fact we don’t have easy access to guns. Nothing else! Convincing Americans that their constitutional right to bear arms is getting a large proportion of their population killed and locked up is not going to happen, you's have been brain washed your entire life to believe you need this right. The gun makers have seen to that :$ $$: The right to bear arms DOES NOT: 1) Prevent crime. Criminals just tool up and shoot first. This cause extra dead ppl. 2) Keep the government in check. Your pea shooters aren’t going to do shit against their tanks and apache gunships! lol I admit I have not read this entire post, I just replied after reading rasganjah’s post, so if this has been covered already sorry.
Why do all Americans seem to think Armageddon is coming? Them evangelical Christine’s have really done a number on the US lol
I apologize, hank, but when you keep treating ppl in the way that you've been... What do you expect? I think that I've been pretty good lately re: nasty posts, but when someone comes along and appears to want nothing but an opportunity to stir shit, I get alittle irritated. Again; I'm sorry for my comments re: your family. I still think your kids are cute. Now lets just all get along and play nice(ly), K?
Oh I agree with you there 100%, and there are a lot of fine points to support both gun control, and total freedom of armament, however, there's no sensible way to deny that certain people should be unarmed. Skuzzy, you're British, correct? With all due respect, please explain to me how the mostly gun-free British culture has adequate experience with citizen gun ownership as a deterrent to crime to say that it does or doesn't deter crime? And BTW while I'm thinking about it, sure, the USA nation still isn't very old and we've got some kinks to work out still, but all this talk about the flaws in American cutlure(whatever's left of it) and how faulty the American way of thinking is(especially by individuals who aren't even residents or citizens), is really beginning to piss me off. We're not talking shit about how jacked up British culture is or how closed-minded Asian nations are, or anyting like that, so my request is that if you can't discuss it without insulting people, and bashing culture and ideals, just stay out of the discussion. Besides, most Euro and asian countries don't allow firearms to citizens anyway, so how the Hell does a topic about american gun ownership concern any non-American residents anyway? IT DOESN'T!!! So either be polite, professional and show some respect to each other while sharing ideals and opinions or STFU. It's a matter of basic courtesy and respecting the differences of others.
Whos bashing american culture? Where discussing gun ownership in the US. I dont agree with it. Im just pointing out what i dont agree with about that one aspect of america. Its american culture to want to have sex with your gun. I dont get it and i dont agree with it, but im not bashing america. As for the guns = less crime bullshit. The US has very high crime rates. Much higher than the UK. You's have guns and we dont. Your guns arent working or you's just dont have enough of them yet Oh yeah, just for the record. Guns used to be legal here. Its only been over the last 15 years that theyve been illegal. Guess what happened over them 15 years. Armed robbery plummeted!
I'm seeing a bit of a pattern. If you disagree with the majority opinion, you are being offensive, trying to stir shit up, etc... If you disagree with some American policy, you are America bashing, etc... People need to realize that there are differing opinions other than the two standard American opinions, left and right, and that stating any such opinion doesn't equal an insult or an attempt to fuck with you.
No it is the insulting manor in which you express your opinion that starts shit :beerchug-2: Teamster6
Seriously. Hank, you offer your opinion in the most high and mighty, ignorant, and offensive way you possibly can. Complete sentences do not make an argument, nor do they make an argument sound. If someone disagrees with you, they get some label, or you rush to a standard anti-American argument.
Skuzz...you generalize when you say statistics point that higher gun ownership = higher death/crime rates. It has been proven that in certain areas where a right to carry a concealed weapon was allowed that violent crime went down....this includes murder. So yes....we have higher gun ownership and we also have higher death rates caused by gun...however...I feel that the reason this is true is because we HAVE gun control to some degree. The way it is laid out right now the criminals (thoe causing the death and crime) are pretty much the only ones allowed to carry a gun. By 'allowed' I mean they don't follow the laws anyway. Those of us who DO follow the laws are at a serious disadvantage and are easy prey....thus the higher crime rates and murder. Now...even the playing field by giving everyone the right to carry guns (as has been done in certain areas) and I feel the crime / death rates will seriously fall. At first here may be a spike in the murder rate as people take out these criminals, but once they are gone....we shall have peace once more. That's just my perspective. Now....the main reason we have the second amendment is because MY forefathers saw that a man's (or woman's) right to defend their life and liberty was a GOD GIVEN RIGHT that ALL men share. Living here in this country I am assured of that right via my constitution. Since guns are now the ultimate weapon on earth it is reasonable to assume that the playing field is much more equal if 'we the people' have guns too. That's how we defend against a tyrannical government bent on controlling us. If you think they do no good against a modern day army.....just look at Iraq and Afghanistan...you could not be more wrong my friend. My forefathers knew the wisdom of their making and so do I. In WWII the US government dropped millions of small single shot .45 caliber handguns behind enemy lines in Europe. These guns were nothing more than a stamped out hunk of metal that could shoot once and be thrown away. The idea was that it was SOMETHING that an oppressed people could use to gain and equal footing against the German army. If used right with specific forethought and strategic thinking that one single shot gun could be used to gain a German soldier's weapon which could in turn be used to secure yet more weapons. You see...the true weapon is the human mind.....the gun is simply the tool said mind uses to assure it's own freedom. I'm sorry you can't grasp that idea. To me it's less about people shooting people than it is about securing my freedom. My few guns may not be much, but coupled with the many other guns and minds in this great country of mine I feel at ease knowing that we have a fighting chance....even if I die in that fight it's worth the peace of mind to me. Nobody will ever change that either. I don't live in fear....my government does. That's why they wish to control our guns. Now I want to address some comments: I with you on this one Goblin. I sometimes wish it would all just fall apart...it needs to and I think it will...just over a longer period of time than I'd like. It's time to wipe the slate clean and let those that prepared survive while those that didn't perish. That's nature folks...we're not outside of it I'm afraid...we've just been led to think we are. It's called the life and death cycle...the strong (smart) survive and the weak and stupid die. Forgive me but I don't see a problem with that myself. There's only so much land to go around. Harsh I know but it's a realist way of looking at the world. You nailed it Joe. :thumbs-up: It's ALL about control. As I said....our government fears US...not the other way around. I have no fear of my government because I own firearms. Maybe if I had to rely on sticks and stones I might be a bit more fearful. Got my own hilltop thanks, but maybe we can send smoke signals to one another. asssit:
Now that's the first sensible thing you've said Skuzz. :thumbs-up: BTW...I didn't mean any harm to you with this post. I just knew you'd get a rise out of it is all. To each their own my friend...to each their own. :beerchug-2:
A funny... I had to post this. Have You Ever Danced? An old prospector shuffled into town leading an old tired mule. The old man headed straight for the only saloon to clear his parched throat. He walked up and tied his old mule to the hitch rail. As he stood there, brushing some of the dust from his face and clothes, a young gunslinger stepped out of the saloon with a gun in one hand and a bottle of whiskey in the other. The young gunslinger looked at the old man and laughed, saying, "Hey old man, have you ever danced?" The old man looked up at the gunslinger and said, "No, I never did dance.. never really wanted to." A crowd had gathered as the gunslinger grinned and said, "Well, you old fool, you're gonna dance now," and started shooting at the old man's feet. The old prospector – not wanting to get a toe blown off – started hopping around like a flea on a hot skillet. Everybody was laughing, fit to be tied. When his last bullet had been fired, the young gunslinger, still laughing, holstered his gun and turned around to go back into the saloon. The old man turned to his pack mule, pulled out a double-barreled shotgun, and cocked both hammers. The loud clicks carried clearly through the desert air. The crowd stopped laughing immediately. The young gunslinger heard the sounds too, and he turned around very slowly. The silence was almost deafening. The crowd watched as the young gunman stared at the old-timer and the large gaping holes of those twin barrels. The barrels of the shotgun never wavered in the old man's hands, as he quietly said, "Son, have you ever kissed a mule's butt?" The gunslinger swallowed hard and said, "No sir... but... I've always wanted to." Here are a few lessons we can learn from this story: Never be arrogant. Don't waste ammunition. Whiskey makes you think you're smarter than you are. Always, always make sure you know who has the power. Don't mess with old men, they didn't get old by being stupid.
