The Unofficial "Official Coco Thread!!!!

UBB- Using coco and perlite and handwatering is actually considered hydro right now... even though it's a soil-less mixture that just so happens to resemble soil it isn't so and can't be treated that way.


I have been the APPRENTICE so to say of Captu4ik for a little while on the coco. And already I have learned a couple of things.


Just the other day I asked the capt a question.


Basically I just wanted to know if you needed to feed when necessary or do you feed every watering?


Basically he told me that coco has no nutrients in it at all until it begins to break down. Therefore you need to feed EVERY watering. Now, I think that I am going to try that. As I have a plant that is surrefing right now, NOT DEAD but suffering in the coco(bagseed strain). This plant started out in soil.


So starting today I will start the plant on a 1/4 strength solution of nutrients, and will water/feed once a day.


I will take before and after pictures to show the plants progress in the coming weeks.

 

Organic or NOT?


here is a challenge.


How is this Organic growing ?


I mean It is in the Organic forum..


Other than microbes clinging to the coco fibers I see little to say it's organic?


I mean what ferts qualify to support microbial life?


That seems to be a thorn in my side here.


I really want to include a substrate grow as organic but I am on really thin ice here.


It really looks like Hydro and chemical grow at this point...


Can you help me understand?


Thanks it is important.

 

You say you hav one plant suffering. How many do you have in coco right now? How are the others doing?


thanks for the update man, you're really helping me out. I'm gunna dedicate my first joint grown in coco to mr. wakenbake!


-Slugg

 

I'm under the impression it can be either organic or non-organic. It all depends on how it is used. You can add soil amendments to it and treat it like an organic soil. Or, you can use it as a hydro media (which is how I'm going to be using it). earlier in the thread I posted a link for a hybrid grow that is both hydro and soil using coco...


-Slugg

 

Hey Randy I answered your question's in your little link you sent me.

 

The final product of what I am doing with my COCO and WHY?


Okay fella's so here's another post for you guys and gals out there.


Most of you that know me well know that I change my mind constantly on a regular basis.During a talk with Mike from Mandala Seeds he stressed something to me that I got to thinking about last night. If you are doing Okay in soil then don't switch totally. Going from soil to COCO can be a seriously aggravating process!


Now after reading the Organic Gardening section of Mel Franks book (The Deluxe Marijua Grower's Guide)and after doing some more studying online into soil recipe's using COCO; I have decided to make a soil mixture and stick with it.


The plants that are growing right now in soil are doing so well that I don't see any reason to go straight coco, which by the way means a lot more nutrients being used(even in hand water).Also I don't like the fact that I have to water every day during the whole plants life. Also I truly beilieve in a living soil environment. Coco and organics can be a complicated deal and I'll tell you why.


Since the coco medium has no microorganisms in it (unless you pre add michrochyzzia) organic nuttrients have a hard time being properly absorbed into the plants. I believe that for healthy plants you need some type of humic material(which has "Mike" in it) in there to create a complete environment.


Now on to the coco mix that i am going to be using from here on out.I would consider this a soil, as there are soil materials in there.


The materials list:


1 Coco Coir Classic Block from Sunleaves **washed, soaked, and rinsed**


2 bags of perlite **washed, soaked, and rinsed**


1 40lb bag of GardenPlus Organic Humus ** No chemical nutrients added!**


2 Tsp per gallon of soil of Dolomite lime to bring up the pH which was 5.8


This mix is going to set for 3-7 days and is very moist. I must do this to let the Humus work on the lime to buffer the pH up to about 6.8. I will check the pH every day and adjust as needed .


I read a post last night on pH issues and why Organic Gardeners shouldn't be worrying about them. He claims that he dosnt' own a soil tester, and I have seen his plants. The reason why the Humus was added and not a regular garden soil is because there is nothing there that wasn't put ther by nature and Humus actually is what buffers your pH and makes your plants able to grow and uptake nutients in even extreme pH conditions....


With Humus mixed into the Coco and perlite, I created a fast draining, highly aerated blend that will hold water well and will have about a stable pH(between 6.2-6.8).So now when I add nutrients there should be no need to pH them to a certain level. The Humus and Lime should do all the work for me.:icon_bounce:


Here is the actual definition of HUMUS by wickipedia:


Humus is a word actually used for two different things, which are both related to soil and thus get used interchangeably.


First, in earth sciences "humus" (see http://www.suprahumic.unina.it/) is any organic matter which has reached a point of stability, where it will break down no further and might, if conditions do not change, remain essentially as it is for centuries, or millennia.


Second, in agriculture, "humus" is often used simply to mean mature compost, or natural compost extracted from a forest or other spontaneous source for use to amend soil.


The process of "humification" can occur naturally in soil, or in the production of compost. Chemically stable humus is thought by some to be important to the fertility of soils in both a physical and chemical sense, though some agricultural experts advocate a greater focus on other aspects of nutrient delivery, instead. Physically, it helps the soil retain moisture, and encourages the formation of good soil structure. Chemically, it has many active sites which bind to ions of plant nutrients, making them more available. Humus is often described as the 'life-force' of the soil. Yet it is difficult to define humus in precise terms; it is a highly complex substance, the full nature of which is still not fully understood. Physically, humus can be differentiated from organic matter in that the latter is rough looking material, with coarse plant remains still visible, while once fully humified it become more uniform in appearance (a dark, spongy, jelly-like substance) and amorphous in structure. That is, it has no determinate shape, structure or character.


Plant remains (including those that have passed through an animal and are excreted as manure) contain organic compounds: sugars, starches, proteins, carbohydrates, lignins, waxes, resins and organic acids. The process of organic matter decay in the soil begins with the decomposition of sugars and starches from carbohydrates which break down easily as saprotrophs initially invade the dead plant, while the remaining cellulose breaks down more slowly. Proteins decompose into amino acids at a rate depending on carbon to nitrogen ratios. Organic acids break down rapidly, while fats, waxes, resins and lignins remain relatively unchanged for longer periods of time. The humus that is the end product of this process is thus a mixture of compounds and complex life chemicals of plant, animal, or microbial origin, which has many functions and benefits in the soil. Earthworm humus (vermicompost) is considered by some to be the best organic manure there is.


[edit] Benefits of Humus


The mineralisation process that converts raw organic matter to the relatively stable substance that is humus feeds the soil population of micro-organisms and other creatures, thus maintaining high and healthy levels of soil life.


Effective and stable humus (see below) are further sources of nutrients to microbes, the former providing a readily available supply while the latter acts as a more long-term storage reservoir.


Humification of dead plant material causes complex organic compounds to break down into simpler forms which are then made available to growing plants for uptake through their root systems.


Humus is a colloidal as substance, and increases the soil's cation exchange capacity, hence its ability to store nutrients by chilation as can clay particles; thus while these nutrient cations are accessible to plants, they are held in the soil safe from leaching away by rain or irrigation.


Humus can hold the equivalent of 80-90% of its weight in moisture, and therefore increases the soil's capacity to withstand drought conditions.


The biochemical structure of humus enables it to moderate – or buffer – excessive acid or alkaline soil conditions.


During the Humification process, microbes secrete sticky gums; these contribute to the crumb structure of the soil by holding particles together, allowing greater aeration of the soil. Toxic substances such as heavy metals, as well as excess nutrients, can be chelated (that is, bound to the complex organic molecules of humus) and prevented from entering the wider ecosystem.


The dark colour of humus (usually black or dark brown) helps to warm up cold soils in the spring.


[edit] Humification of leaf litter and formation of clay-humus complexes


Compost which is readily capable of further decomposition is sometimes referred to as effective or active humus, though again actual scientists would say that if it is not stable, it's not humus at all. This kind of compost is principally derived from sugars, starches, and proteins, and consists of simple organic (fulvic) acids. It is an excellent source of plant nutrients, but of little value regarding long-term soil structure and tilth. Stable (or passive) humus consisting of humic acids, or humins, on the other hand, are so highly insoluble (or tightly bound to clay particles that they cannot be penetrated by microbes) that they are greatly resistant to further decomposition. Thus they add few readily available nutrients to the soil, but play an essential part in providing its physical structure. Some very stable humus complexes have survived for thousands of years. Stable humus tends to originate from woodier plant materials, eg, cellulose and lignins.


Hope you guys enjoy the info. I just couldn't go straight coco... There is just too much of a learning curve for me to do so and end up killing my beautiful plants. So I will still grow with COCO but just in a different form and manner.


Any comments or suggestions is welcom .