US / World Economy in Trouble

These ppl do work though. They all have qualifications and they run these companies. It may seem easy and as if they do nothing for there money but its hard work. They may not sweat while at work but i bet there putting 70 hour weeks in every week.


Shareholders dont tolerate failure!

 

On the golf course maybe. :tvlaugh:

 

You have got to read this, at least half of it.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/bailout.pork/index.html


An excise tax on arrows. This kind of shit is getting attached to the bailout. Oregon should vote both those bastards out.

 

The reason we can't go to a no money, for the good of mankind system is not just greed/laziness....there is no motivation for it! Some people have the goal to write poetry, which in the long run may in fact increase the good of mankind, but who is to say that Art, in a non-monetarist, World-hedonistic world would be appreciated at all? Who decides what IS ACTUALLY FOR "the good of mankind." If all someone wants to do is make art, but that is "deemed" not in the interest of our further development, what sense, for that person, would there be in them doing some other task that "needs" to get done.


Socialism will never work on a large, full scale, level. Why should I work harder, to produce more if I am getting the same in return as the guy beside me who is just doing his job? And the same idea applies. Who is to decide what is best for society? Or what we should or should not share? Why should I go to school for eight years to be a doctor when the waiter has all the advantages I do. Some people DO want to help other people, I am one of them. But that isn't EVERYONE'S way. Doesn't mean they don't contribute to the good of mankind, but rather that philanthropy just isn't their thing.


In the same respect, people with a shit-ton of money HAVE TO BE THERE to make YOUR money have its relative VALUE. There has to be some higher value to be obtained for what I own to be of any value. Back in the day it was food, or beer, or whatever. I want a spear. I have no idea how to make a spear. I do, however, know how to grow apples. You have a shit ton of spears, but no Apples. Thus my apples have value because I have a lot of them, and you have none. But your spears also have value to me, because I have none. just came about so we didn't have to worry about when we had no apples. I have apples during apple season, but none during the winter. I still need a spear in the winter. Thus some form of "credit" needs to be created. That is money. is simply the promised value of the services you are capable of.


Capitalism IS NOT PERFECT, more so UNCHECKED. But look at Russia, China, Venezuela, the Middle-East.....I am pretty sure I know which system I am going to vote for, if we have a vote in the first place.

 

To be fair: That video does not show the full text of those executive orders, which depending on the courts, have and have not been shown to be unconstitutional. They gave immunity to the companies, but they lost some of the private citizens cases...some...


All I am saying is 1. If you read the full text of some of that stuff....some....it would come out to mean something completely different. 2. Executive orders only hold true as far as you can throw them. Throw the flat sheets in front of you, they fall to the ground....make them into a paper airplane, however, and watch them soar. 3. Congress does not have to listen to executive orders. They can choose to, but are not bond by. 4. By "mobilize citizens," they mean public servants, not just rounding up random peeps to build bridges....pretty sure that wouldn't get much accomplished, you seen random peeps lately? 5. They already have the power to take over waterways, airports, ports, trains, or whatever....In respect to national defense, the constitution is not that specific. 6. I could go on forever with this devil's advocate shit.


My point being: Don't believe everything you hear on youtube. Staying aware and concerned is one thing, but what the president does is basically shit and useless in general. They are there to make sure laws are upheld. They can make all the orders they want, push through all the legislation they want...only holds true as long as the current congress lets them.

 

It actually makes you sound like a Republican. "Fuck the rest of the world, I've got what they want/need and they can't have it from me."


I do agree that the welfare system has created a lot of pure lazy people who lie to the system to keep getting free handouts. I've heard of many people around these parts who fake injuries and mental illnesses to keep receiving disability. Some people feel though that what's the point of working to make someone else rich when you can sit at home and do nothing for sometimes more money?

Maybe, but there are some who don't. Take the CEO of a large company who got the job, made a sign in bonus of several million, then led the company into the toilet for 8 months, was voted out, and received a severance package of another several million. In the meanwhile me and a lot of others like me on the bottom of the food chain were working 60 hours a week in a sweatshop environment, having our asses ridden about how much work we couldn't possibly get done in the time they mandated us to work there, and then complained constantly how our quality levels suck knowing they expect faster results at the expense of quality. We made anywhere from $7-$13 an hour while we hear about some millionaire fuck up at the top.


And sure.. the answer is simple to some. "work somewhere else". Fine, but in an area where jobs are scarce and pay less than the one you have.. Where do you go? You can't afford to move. Hell I'd like to get a sign on bonus and a severance package. But I didn't.. I was fired eventually because they hired cheap help and replaced me. Made up some bullshit excuse that my work was poor. Knowing that others in the plant where worse employees than I ever was. And I watched the same thing happen to other people that worked there as well. I hope the management chokes on the money they made off me, and others like me. And that CEO can fucking die too.

that's great. But how much taking can they receive. It's true I like to wipe my ass but the corporate level of the manufacturing company of toilet paper doesn't need a billion dollars to know that.

sounds like you would do ok tho. If you indeed have the motivation, optimism, and entrepreneurial skills, you'll do just fine. maybe sell stones to people or something. Dinosaur droppings. whatever..


lol

 

Socialism: Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.


Communism: A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.


The only real difference is communism is a PROMISED centralized government. Socialism can take many forms, from the hippies in Cali, to the almost-communist-Venezuela.


Socialism is the Left, Communism is the Right. Both don't work for the same reasons.

 

You think living in canada is like living in the old USSR? Pretty big difference. And lets be practical, when someone mentions socialism they are generally referring to modern 1st world socialism. Not dictatorship hidden under a veil of socialism.

 

Not a true socialist government. I am a libertarian. There are extreme Libertarians, there are moderates. Some are right, some are left, some are middle. The same goes with every other "western" government, or governmental party. They are a mix of capitalism/republic/socialist. Throw a little monarchy in there, and you got the one problem with political arguments: Aint one straight, ideological, form of government, cause straight-ideological governments/anythings don't work.


And like I said before, left vs. right. Canada is obviously a left leaning country, while Russian now or before is right leaning.

 

Trends usually start in California


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/california.loan/index.html


Wonder what state will be next? California is broke obviously. This country is just so barely getting by. I truly am worried!

 

I was just reading that article.

 

Anyone else notice that the 'bailout' plan is now being called the 'rescue' plan?


Gotta love their play on words....makes all the difference in the world when it comes to getting what they want to pass. ottytrain1:

 

I am going to have to get you in the no spin zone.:kidding:

 

Skuzz I see the point you are making and yes there are lazy ppl who choose not to work but then there are these CEO's who do nothing but collect a rockstar salary which was the issue with this whole mess. On the same note I know what you mean about some working their ass off 60 hours plus too and no I do not think one should have to share their paycheck unless they want too.


I am giving so yah for me>>I would help out others if I made lots of cash as I feel it makes good karma BUT I would only give to those who want to help themselves. Clay is dead on that welfare is a failed system for those who truly need it sometimes get turned down or use it as their life career.


No matter what there will always be those who work hard or those who abuse but in fairness we also have hardworking people who no can not work due to this economy and the lack of jobs in some states.


People do need to live within their means, credit cards to me are the devil as I am a firm believer if I do not have the money then I do not need it.


Anywhos....very good points made by all.


Peace~mermaid

 

The whole mess is down to irresponsible lending in an unregulated american system. I dont think its the fat cat salaries.


The american system needs more regs. You'd never get away with half the stuff yous do in america in the UK. The american ppl need saving from their self. How can someone on a small wage or even no wage think they can buy a house lol.


The sales men that sold the houses to these ppl are the greedy one. If your sitting in a house speaking to someone who's sucking on a crack pipe while there 6 kids rack through the bin for their tea, you should know they can afford a mortgage. They will do anything for their commission!