US / World Economy in Trouble

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Administrator, Feb 20, 2008.

Page 9 of 26
  1. snickelfritz

    snickelfritz Weed College Hall Monitor

    Bush warns 'entire economy is in danger'





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    Bush warns 'entire economy is in danger'


    By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer 40 minutes ago


    President Bush said Wednesday that lawmakers risk a cascade of wiped-out retirement savings, rising home foreclosures, lost jobs and closed businesses if they fail to act on a massive financial rescue plan. "Our entire economy is in danger," he said.


    "Without immediate action by Congress, American could slip into a financial panic and a distressing scenario would unfold," Bush said in a 12-minute prime-time address delivered from the White House East Room that he hoped would help rescue his tough-sell bailout package. "Ultimately, our country could experience a long and painful recession."


    Said Bush: "We must not let this happen."


    The unprecedented $700 billion bailout, which the Bush administration asked Congress last weekend to approve before it adjourns, is meeting with deep skepticism, especially from conservatives in Bush's own Republican Party who are revolting at the high price tag and massive private-sector intervention by government. Though there is general agreement that something must be done to address the spiraling economic problems, Bush has been forced to accept changes almost daily, based on demands from the right and left.


    Seeking to explain himself to conservatives, Bush stressed he was reluctant to put taxpayer money on the line to help businesses that had made bad decisions and that the rescue is not aimed at saving individual companies. He tried to address some of the major complaints from Democrats by promising that CEOs of failed companies won't be rewarded, while warning he would draw the line at regulations he determined would hamper economic growth.


    "With the situation becoming more precarious by the day, I faced a choice: to step in with dramatic government action or to stand back and allow the irresponsible actions by some to undermine the financial security of all," Bush said.


    The president turned himself into an economics professor for much of the address, tracing the origins of the problem back a decade.


    But while generally acknowledging risky and poorly thought-out financial decisions at many levels of society, Bush never assigned blame to any specific entity, such as his administration, the quasi-independent mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac or the Wall Street firms that built rising profits on increasingly speculative mortgage-backed securities. Instead, he spoke in terms of investment banks that "found themselves saddled with" the toxic assets the government is now proposing to buy and banks that "found themselves" with questionable balance sheets.


    Intensive, personal lobbying of lawmakers is not usually Bush's style as president, unlike some predecessors. He does not often make calls or twist arms on behalf of a legislative priority.


    But with the nation facing the biggest financial meltdown in decades, Bush took the unusual step of asking Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain, one of whom will inherit the financial mess in four months, and key congressional leaders of both parties to a White House meeting on Thursday to work on a compromise.


    Obama spokesman Bill Burton said the senator would attend the meeting scheduled for the afternoon, and senior McCain advisers said he would, too. The plans of the other invitees were unknown. The White House said that the idea for the joint meeting was McCain's and that aides went about setting it up after Bush and McCain spoke Wednesday afternoon.


    In another move welcome at the White House, Obama and McCain issued a joint statement using their own dire language to urge lawmakers to act. The two candidates — bitterly fighting each other for the White House but coming together over this issue — said the situation offers a chance for politicians to prove Washington's worth.


    "The plan that has been submitted to Congress by the Bush administration is flawed, but the effort to protect the American economy must not fail," they said. "This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe."


    However, the Oval Office rivals were not putting politics aside entirely. McCain asked Obama to agree to delay their first debate, scheduled for Friday, while Obama said it should go ahead.


    White House and administration officials have warned repeatedly in recent days of a coming "financial calamity."


    But that has not closed the deal, which for many recalls previous warnings of grave threats from Bush — such as before the Iraq war — that did not materialize. So Bush's goal with his speech, his first prime-time address in 377 days, was to frame the debate in layman's terms to show the depths of the crisis, explain how it affects the people's daily lives and inspire the public to demand action from Washington.


    He said that more banks could fail, the stock market could plummet and erase retirement accounts, businesses could find it hard to get credit and be forced to close, wiping out jobs for millions of Americans.


    He ended on a positive note, predicting lawmakers would "rise to the occasion" and that the nation's economy will overcome "a moment of great challenge."


    With so many crises hitting the United States at once, the presidential race has taken a back seat and so has Bush's involvement in politics. Bush canceled a campaign trip to Florida on Wednesday to deal with the problem, the third time in a week that he has scrapped his attendance at out-of-town fundraisers, either because of the market turmoil or Hurricane Ike.


    The economic crisis also is almost certain to overshadow the rest of Bush's four months left in office and could hugely impact his legacy. It has been assumed that the long-term view of Bush's presidency was to be shaped largely by Iraq, Hurricane Katrina and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Now, the dire economic problems and the aftermath of the government's attempted solution will certainly be added to that list.


     
    snickelfritz, Sep 25, 2008
    #161
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  2. AverageJoe

    AverageJoe papa oom mow mow

    Herb predicted somewhere in this thread that the elections would be suspended, or even cancelled so the Bush regime could continue their power grab. He predicted it would be because we attacked Iran, but it sounds as though they may have chosen a different catalyst...the economy.
     
    AverageJoe, Sep 25, 2008
    #162
  3. Useless

    Useless Diogenes Reincarnate

    Anyone else notice the wording on the initial bailout plan??


    That Paulson's decisions with $700 Billion is to be "non reviewable by any senate or congressional committee nor any legislative body"....


    In other words, we are supposed to hand over $700B to a non elected official who was appointed by Bush and who has done nothing to prevent the economy from slipping into this unquantifiable failure it is currently in. Well, I guess unquantifiable isnt true, its a $700B failure. No questions asked, and no possible repercussions should he squander the loot.


    Just like Bush and McCain, Paulson stated the "fundamentals of our economy are strong" up until last week.


    Pretty damn scary to give this a guy $700B, with no oversight.
     
    Useless, Sep 25, 2008
    #163
  4. AverageJoe

    AverageJoe papa oom mow mow


    Thirty two words none dare utter
    Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

     
    AverageJoe, Sep 25, 2008
    #164
  5. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

    I'm glad to see that others are just as horrified as I am about this whole 'deal' they're putting through in such a hurry. As Useless pointed out...the same people who got us INTO this mess are now asking for $700 BILLION and asking that they be given free reign to do as they please with it.....WITHOUT oversight!


    HOLY SHIT people! :icon_confused:


    Now they are blatantly shoving in our faces the fact that they will steal ALL our money without any shame what so ever.


    If this goes through Congress it'll show once and for all that our elected officials no longer serve us and are bought and paid for. :fingermad:


    On that note.....here's some more reading to enlighten those that may not understand the gravity of this situation and how we got here in the first place.


    Thinking the unthinkable: A debt write down, and jubilee year clean slate

     
    Administrator, Sep 25, 2008
    #165
  6. TheFomorian

    TheFomorian Neo-Shaman

    Don't worry guys, last night my dad said that "The government is going to work this thing out." I was relieved. I trust his judgment since he voted for Bush both times, supports the war even now, and gets his facts from Fox News.


    Just close your eyes and tell yourself everything is going to be all right. I mean, this is America, right?
     
    TheFomorian, Sep 25, 2008
    #166
  7. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

    :roll:


    Love the pun. :ebert:


    Is everyone having fun yet? :icon_confused:


    Here's more good reading.....that is if you'd rather hear the truth over the bullshit being spewed from every major news media outlet.


    Trouble in Banktopia: The financial system is blowing up

     
    Administrator, Sep 29, 2008
    #167
  8. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

    US bailout fuels protests in streets, online

     
    Administrator, Sep 29, 2008
    #168
  9. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

    :roll:


    Loved this quote...go Nader!

     
    Administrator, Sep 29, 2008
    #169
  10. AverageJoe

    AverageJoe papa oom mow mow

    I got this in an email this morning. Sounds like a good idea to me.


    I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.


    Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a "We Deserve It Dividend".


    To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.


    Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.


    So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up... So divide 200


    million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.


    My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend".


    Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.


    Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500 in taxes. That sends


    $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.


    But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket. A


    husband and wife has $595,000.


    What would you do wi th $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?


    Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.


    Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads.


    Put away money for college - it'll be there.


    Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.


    Buy a new car - create jobs.


    Invest in the market - capital drives growth.


    Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves.


    Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else.


    Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who


    lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting


    back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.


    If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of


    trickling out a puny $1,000 economic incentive.


    If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S


    Citizen 18+!


    As for AIG - liquidate it . Sell off its parts. Let American General go


    back to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private


    sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.


    Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.


    Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."


    But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!


    How do you spell Economic Boom?


    I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 billion "We


    Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.


    And remember, this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5


    Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
     
    AverageJoe, Sep 29, 2008
    #170
  11. EvilSkuzzi

    EvilSkuzzi Sweet Guy

    That does sound nice Joe, but it would cause massive problems!!!!!!


    If everyone in the US suddenly had that much money then inflation would go through the roof! That loaf of bread that cost you a dollar today would cost you several hundred in a few weeks!


    Not a nice picture!
     
    EvilSkuzzi, Sep 29, 2008
    #171
  12. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

    Speaking of pictures.....I think the House got the 'picture' today and gave this bailout a HUGE defeat!!!! :stop:


    I wish I could say they voted against it because it was the right thing to do, but we all know they did it because many fear losing their elections in five weeks. People from coast to coast are PISSED OFF and they've made their voices heard. It's times like this that I realize that not all is lost.....we (the people) just need to get off our asses and speak up! Why does it take such drastic measures to get us to do so? :ponder:


    [​IMG]


    House ignores Bush, rejects $700B bailout bill


    [​IMG]


    Stocks tumble as bailout plan fails in House
     
    Administrator, Sep 29, 2008
    #172
  13. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

    Here's a little look at the outcome of that wonderful 'Stimulus Package' we were told would put our economy right again. Turned out just as I feared too....just a bandaid on a gaping wound. So nice that we still get to pay for it....just like all the other failed ideas Bush has had. :angry:


    [​IMG]


    Consumer spending weakens as stimulus fades

     
    Administrator, Sep 29, 2008
    #173
  14. brand

    brand Begun Flowering

    brand, Sep 29, 2008
    #174
  15. TheApprentice

    TheApprentice Retired.

    want answers?Google vids> "the money masters"..3hours of scary but true FACTS!


    Aye this shit sure is getting deep... i mean i know its hitting all you guys across the pond badly but what happens in america resonates round the world right?Well here in the UK we already in the last year have gave away millions of pounds of taxpayers cash to prop up a bank that was doomed to go bust anyway....so the bank took all OUR money then they stop investing in local and big business ,fuck up ppls pensions and REFUSE to give the average guy in the street like me a fuckin overdraft extension,thats how bad the so called credit 'crunch' is in the UK... the bank i refer to of course was northern rock...y'all might not have heard of them but they fucked up so bad that the govt had to buy them out and inherit their debts EVEN after they got a bail out package that was meant to save them and the economy!!!WTF:angry5:


    But im sure a lot of you will have heard of HSBC as they own a LOT of banks including one thats a scottish instituion and NOW they are in the shit... this things hitting us ALL hard make no mistake,my mums trying to sell off her 5 bedroom home cos of all this shit so she can downsize(although all 5 of us siblings have flown the nest now anyway)... she wont get anywhere NEAR what she paid for the house when she moved up to scotland again from england only a year ago!:qbluewacko:


    Gordon Brown our prime minister is a dick as a prime minister but as our chancellor of the treasury beside tony blair for 10 years he was VERY astute with taxpayers cash and his budgets were always designed to help the working class and old ppl more than the conservative middle classes or elite...but even he can see what this is gonna play out like which is why he cancelled all his UN meetings last week to go tell dubya bush to do something,anything and qucik...they come up with a 'toxic bank' idea which got rejected before brown even got back to the UK and now this ones ejected...meanwhile all the 'spivs' are selling low,buying the stock and then waiting for the govt to increase their share values while everyone else suffers... the city of london is the worlds largest financial institution and area,if america fucks up economy wise then so do we.


    Meanwhile the military increases their spending every year:5sigh:... I gotta say herb called this one early:thumbsup:...im tellin ya when the economy fails and you need a wheel barrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread then thats gonna be the catalyst for some anarchy IMO... the shits about to hit the fan even more! Bin Laden and his cronies must be pissing themselves at our two great nations that are major world powers...he dont need to destroy our nations cos we or rather the govt seem to be doing a good enough job of that for them!Meanwhile Russia and China are increasing their power and economy again and i gotta say.. surely this is gonna lead us into a place where we really dont wanna be?But how or whos gonna stop the rot before its too late:ponder:


    HOW CAN THIS SHIT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN... A BANK SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO SPEND CASH IT DONT HAVE OR THAT DONT BELONG TO IT UNLESS THEY CAN BACK IT UP ANY GIVEN DAY!!!!!!!


    PPL.....AGAIN.. i BEG y'all to go to google vids and watch part one and two of 'THE MONEY MASTERS'.... it will open your eyes to federal reserve and fractional banking which is crippling the world.... GIVE THE POWER OF MINTING THEIR OWN MONEY BACK TO THE PPL AND NOT IN THE HANDS OF PRIVATE ,SOMETIMES FOREIGN OWNED BANKS!!!! If you care about all the preface to this story of financial ruin and meltdown then ya gotta go way way back to the days of abe lincon and even further back to the establishment of the bank of england and then scotland... this is where it ALL began... the MONEY MASTERS is 3 hours of fact based truths on the banking system in america and the world...the world banks control this shit,they NEED to create some boom times then hit us with a bust time... its an age old routine that they will carry on doing...i cant explain it...just goto google vids and watch it cos it opened my eyes to the banking swindle of the world today.Herbs avy says it all.Peace :jj::eek:fftheair:
     
    TheApprentice, Sep 30, 2008
    #175
  16. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

    :icon_confused: Damn...I think I got rid of it too soon.....I'll have to put it back up. :biggrin:
     
    Administrator, Sep 30, 2008
    #176
  17. EvilSkuzzi

    EvilSkuzzi Sweet Guy

    Apprentice, anyone can be a good treasure in time of plenty.


    Our good old mr brown spent all our money and then some, leaving us with fuck all for our current rainy day. Socialism is great in time of plenty but he took the piss and look at us now!
     
    EvilSkuzzi, Sep 30, 2008
    #177
  18. brand

    brand Begun Flowering

    what are the ramifications of doing nothing?


    The best I have heard is you might not get a car loan, business might not be able to borrow to make payroll, people might not get a mortgage, student loans might not be available. Is this the best they can come up with? That doesn't seem like matter of life and death to me.


    If you want a car pay cash for it. Having a huge car note is that persons choice. Any business borrowing to make payroll isn't going to be around very long anyhow I wouldn't think, and I am calling bullshit on not being able to get a mortgage. Good credit and at least 10% down will get you a home. Far as student loans, I am not sure there, I thought Stafford loans were backed by the government, good credit bad credit doesn't matter if you are going to school. But bankruptcy could never clear a student loan debt, that shit has to be paid eventually.
     
    brand, Oct 1, 2008
    #178
  19. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

    You hit the nail on the head....it's ALL about credit. They feel that the answer to our 'credit' crisis is........MORE CREDIT!!!


    Freakin' dumbasses! :suave:


    So what if banks fail and credit dries up.....that's EXACTLY what this country needs. For too long now people have mistaken the fact that they don't actually OWN their homes and their toys. Most everything the American family has in their possesion is owned by the bank.


    I gave up credit almost ten years ago now after my divorce. My ex screwed my credit so I had little choice. Funny thing is...I've somehow managed to find a way to survive. I don't go out and buy shit on credit...that's for damn sure, but I do buy what I need and it's forced me to live within my means. There's not a damn thing wrong with that either. Matter of fact I enjoy not being up to my ears in debt. That's true freedom IMO.


    What these assholes in Washington are trying to tell us is that we need to keep the economy going with more of what's brought us to this point....credit. America as a whole is a junkie.....we're gas junkies and we're credit junkies. We have forgotten how to save and buy things when we can afford them....IF we can afford them. That's the whole problem. Easy money made people go out and buy things they could not afford. Now we have the problem we have and taking bad debt off of big banks so they can feed us more credit is NOT the answer. The answer is to buck up and go through withdrawls till we reach a point of healthy consumerism. This $700bil 'plan' of theirs is not even remotely close to being for OUR benefit...it's to benefit those already living high on the hog due to OUR addiction to credit. They are the dealers and we are the junkies....simple as that. The dealer sees the junkies running out of money and therefore they too will go down. Nuff said. :fingermad:
     
    Administrator, Oct 1, 2008
    #179
  20. TheApprentice

    TheApprentice Retired.

    Yesterday was the bleakest day ever known,the preface to financialmeltdown has begun


    Aye i totAlly agree skuzz on that one mate:thumbsup: Im sitting here with my copy of todays 'the sun':icon_lol: and even the tabloids are trying to spell this shit out to the masses,im shocked at what im reading here:icon_eek:


    Yesterday was the 'blackest monday' in most of our lifetimes at least,this aint as iv said just an american problem...last night Gordon Brown ,after learing his lesson from the failed bail out package of taxpayers cash to northern rock bank,has now also 'NATIONILISED' yet another sinking yet well established bank in the UK called bradford and bingley but whats pissing me of is that the 'spivs and spectators' are gonna make a killing when all is said and done,they sell low,buy back low and then sell high in the futre with OUR taxpayers cash to help them:disgust:


    I see the same is happening in the states with americas 4th largest bank 'WACHOVIA' needing an 'assist':icon_rolleyes::5sigh::angry5:...from the bush admin. They waved through an emergency buy out from citigeroup and the govt has told them that they will cover any losses they might have...IS THIS A FUCKIN JOKE???The worldls in financial meltdown due to these fuckers and the govt hands out billions on both sides of the atlantic of taxpaers cash to save banks that have totally failed their clients and customers:fingermad:


    :scream:This is a GLOBAL recession for the 1st time since pre war eras... check out a few of the MANY stories from round the world...the dominoe effect from america to europe and asia didnt even take 24hrs... if bush dont organise some sort of astute plan soon theres gonna be some good old fashioned anarchy in the streets of the globe...heres a quick lowdown on some scary facts from 'black monday' yesterdsay>>>


    GERMANY>: Property lender HYPO REAL ESTATE was the 1st of germaniescompanies to seek a bail out(its the in thing to do it seems right now:eusa_doh:)..It secured £28 BILLION from Angela Markels govt and various consortiums...


    GREAT BRITAIN/U.K>: The oldest banking institution in scotland(the royal bank of scotland) along with the largest bank in scotland(the bank of scotland who also own english bank HALIFAX) are on the brink! Shares fell by 15% by end of trading after FORTIS who together bought ABN-AMRO had to be bailed out at the same time as our govt nationalised yet ANOTHER bank in BRADFORD & BINGLEY:eek:


    ITALY>: Trading in bank UNICREDIT was twice suspended yesterdsay as shares crashed due to the fact half the banks revenue is exposed to the credit crunch as it comes from the UK and USA..


    ICELAND>: Govt took control of GLITNIR by buying 75% of the bank for £500 million after tapping foreign exchange reserves to get that cash to do so!!!Icelands'crown' is at a record LOW against the 'euro' and the UK 'pound sterling'...


    HOLLAND,BELGIUM AND LUXEMBOURG>: The 3 govt's have nationalised Belgian banking institute and insurance giant FORTIS,they all coughed up a combined £8.9billion to save the firm.It now must sell its stake in ABN-AMRO bought last year by the royal bank of scotland...


    JAPAN>: Bank MITSUBISHI UFG admitted plans to take a 21% stake in USA giant MORGAN STANLEY,they will pay £5billion for the holding,this comes after MORGAN STANLEY's failed merger with WACHOVIA... (notice china and japan seem to be coping okay?:eusa_think:)


    ...what we now have is a world meltdown where LENDING banks are far to scared to lend to each other in case the other collapses so that means bad news for the average guy on the street cos as i stated earlier,i cant even get any credit in the form of an overdraft extension upgrade and my mum is forced to sell her home for nowhere near what she paid for it only a year and a bit ago...this is gonna hit the working and middle clases hardest,naturally:angry7:


    In the UK the public for years have been encouraged to get credit cards,in fact in some stores these days you can get jack shit without a chipand pin VISA card,etc... the UK alone has a staggering £1 TRILLION,yes TRILLION pound credit card debt...a LOT of ppl who enjoyed the boom times in the late 90's will nowbe forced to sell their homes and lose or forfeit their businesses as they cannot get ANY more lending from the banks that are SOLELY built for lending!:qbluewacko: Remember im talkin UK pounds all through this thread,you can almost double all these figures for dollar$ just to see what it means in your curency...it dont matter what currency you use...they are all rippling and the cause and effect..is ..well its in effect:eusa_doh:,lol.. it really is fuckin sickening that all these smart guys who run the worlkds govts and banks could even get us intio a mess like this!THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING....THE IMF will sit back and squeeze us all that much tighter till we all stand up and take over our own destiny!Im reading and reading and the more i read and hear about all this the miore i KNOW this was pre planned..


    YOU AINT GONNA TELL ME THAT THIS 'MAN MADE' CHAOS OF THE WORLDS ECONOMY THATS MORE OR LESS HAPPENED OVERNIGHT IN BANKING TERMS WASNT PLANNED LONG AGO BY THE IMF WORLD BANK...


    ...alex jones predicted this shit would happen just like he predicted live on air that 9/11 was gonna happen but ppl just laughed,i guess not everyone is laughing at him now...


    Herb,is there room for a small family at your lil commune?If not then im gonna head for JohnH's bunker cos he got the most guns....unless el campesino ever comes back to dispute this(speaking of which i wonder if he ever got that $1million:ponder:)


    ... im glad my mum has like a food storage which would last us a long long time and water and grain,etc... lots of seeds and self sufficent plans ,i always said she was crazy and a panic buyer but she says she only ever started her garage food and water storage scheme(generators aswell) cos one year we got snowed in here in scotland and no trucks could get to our shops to deliver food ,i clearly remember that cars were of the road and we walked to the mall and took our shopping home on my lil sleigh,lol!


    She says that never again will she be in a position where she needs to rely on others in times like that and im inclined to agree:thumbsup: Just wait till the petrol crisis kicks in come winter time and thats when you'll see REAL panic and thats when the real shit hits the fan!Ya heard it here first on GK ppl,good thread herb,i was gonna say you must be psychic but TBH loooking back it was fuckin obvious that some sort of calamity was gonna happen before Bush left office..


    IN FACT I DO RECALL A THREAD WHERE I MENTIONED THE FACT HE GOT A NEW BILL PASSED WHICH GIVES HIM OR ANY FUTURE PRESIDENT THE RIGHT TO STAY ON FOR A 3RD TERM IN THERE IS ANY KIND OF CATASTROPHE AND UNDER THE DEFINITIONS IN THAT BILL THAT GOT PASSED THIS IS A TOTAL CALAMITY AND A CATALYST FOR CIVIL UNREST!!!!


    :5masked: ...especially if he actually has the balls to actually try and stay in office any longer than he has,hes done more damage to america and world /foreign relations and world economy than any other leader of the world i can think of.... sooooo anyone know where i can lay me my hands on a couple of AA-12 machine shotguns with some frag grenade bullet cartridges:ponder: Oh yeah... i forget ...how the fuck do you make bread again?At least im good at fishing,lol! Bartering is making a comeback.Gotta go exhale:jj:
     
    TheApprentice, Oct 1, 2008
    #180
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