first off this is a religous debate, not animal awareness. and last, anything on state buildings of a religous nature is wrong, and the same as 'pushing it' on people. it is the same thing as if everyday the same homeless guy asks you for change but you say no and go on about your life. then one day, you crack and give him that money (not that you shouldn't). except the money is your self control and will power, and the church is the homeless guy. eventually if someone goes on about something enough, most people will give in. the only difference between right and wrong, is how many people agree with you (or are forced to/raised to). how can one not be sucked into a religon when they are being constantly bombarded with negative ideals. 'oh no i might go to hell if i don't repent now!'. and of course no one wants to be burning for eternity. which also plagues me, without a physical body, how could you 'burn'? can souls burn? I doubt it since people that die in fires supposedly 'go to heaven or hell'. humans, as they grow up, are exactly the same, still like children when they grow up, except more complex with more experiences. but the fundamental mind and thought process is still there always. to religous people, god is like their parent. parents tell you what to do, you listen or else you get punished. you do good and you might be rewarded. you ask them for things and they may help you out. thats the same with religon, and don't tell me it isn't. the fact is, religon is the easy way out of having to deal with explaining the things we do not yet fully understand as a species. it is a story book, because you are children. god's children. and he is the parent. so you do what he says, or else. Religon is holding the world back from the future. there is no future if everyday forward still holds all the problems of the past. we are basically stuck in a circle. religon is responsible for billions of dead end lives, lost loves, and countless murders, rape, wars, etc. the bible today isn't even close to the same bible that was first written. many stories added/changed/removed over time. remember, the victors of the wars of the world write the history, therefore, it usually isn't accurate, and made to favor the winners as the good guys instead of the murderers. the bible has been translated, and retranslated many times over. the only copies used to be written by hand at first. and even then, bibles were being sold, and for much more than today. it would cost a farmer his whole farm to get a copy of the good words. even though it is 'god's word' we still pay for it even today. surely such a powerful church of god could offer bibles (gods word) free of charge to all whom seek it. religon is based soley on money and power, with a bit of charity here and there as a front. but most of this charity comes from fools who have been sucked into the religon. without church, god would fade away and be shown as what he is, obsolete. (btw why does god need to be a him? a him would imply a sex, and a sex would imply procreation, which would imply he would have to have an opposite sex on his level of being to procreate with...otherwise, WHY DOES HE HAVE A COCK then?) and church by all rights, is the complete opposite of what the original christians were shooting for. do you think jesus took money collections? or decided which new car he is going to buy with all his hard earned church money? alot of churches are started up by individuals solely there to make money off church goers. and the sad part is, I've seen it first hand. hell, the 'preacher' got his $$ to build the church from the states! 90k and he used only 35k of it. where'd the rest go? into a new motorcycle, and a hefty mortgage payment on a new home. he preaches once a week, feeds everyone cheap food that probably didn't cost anywhere near 200$ and then takes collections and gets thousands. the money can't possibly go into the church anymore, it is built, there is no more work needed done to it, nothing. maybe at best, the bills need to get payed there. but using it once a week isn't going to make it very high at all. so I say the guy spends less than a thousand a month total in bills/food (and thats high balling it ALOT). Yet he makes 8,000$ in collections. you see the pattern? (and some churches require you to pay 'ties', which means 10% of your income goes to the church to be a member) 'God Helps those who help themselves' -bible now this has always made me laugh because it is obvious. if you helped yourself, then why would you need gods help after? you wouldn't. the problem is you guys can't deal with it. you are your own god. meaning you govern yourself, you have the power to manipulate everything imagineable. you have the power to decide for yourself, what where when how. it is called free will. and you are losing it everyday more and more. people are soo afraid, that they make themselves feel they aren't in control of everything that happens (which u arent always, meaning someone else is in control. but the point is. someone is in control, they are human, and they decided for themselves, good or bad.) it makes it easier to blow off problems and not find solutions when you tell yourself, 'thats just the way it is'. if everyone said thats just the way it is, we wouldn't have many things we do today. and suffering would be greater. no one would stand up for whats right, instead of whats said to be right.
Ur preaching to the choir... Pun intended! Yuk, yuk... I feel the same way about some of that... But, I don't try to dwell on it. Generally speaking... I couldn't give a rats arse if people go to church or not... As long as they don't knock on my door trying to bring that shit to my house.
"" Trill...I have seen proof to the contrary. There are plenty of stories where animals have rescued their owners from fire and/or certain death. This is clear evidence that they are 'aware' of life and death. Science is just now discovering that the animal world has a very intricate dialog and communication with one another. Just because WE don't understand animals doesn't mean they don't think and feel as we do. As I said...arrogant thinking is what leads humankind to think they are superior. I laugh at that thought. We are a bunch of fuckups...I often wonder what animals think of US. They are now learning that dolphins may be MORE intelligent than humans! At the moment all we can base inteligence on is our own way of thinking. The day a man can get inside the head of an animal to truely know what it's thinking I'll start believing they are less than we are. Until then I don't buy it."" of course all animinals are smareter than us---- WERE DOING ALL THE WORK! you dont see a rabbit toting a credit card bill or a morgage....we are slaves to our posessions~! WERE the DUMB ones!
"Once again your bigotry is coming thru. I'd like you to talk to me like this in real life I'd pound your ass in the ground. Nah your not worth it. Maybe some day you'll get an original thought and not have to ride the coattails of your proffessors." one person once said...'Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering.' or something along those line :laughing5: and... Biggotry: "Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion:" Irrational: "Marked by a lack of accord with reason or sound judgment: an irrational dislike." you couldn't be more wrong. it clearly says IRRATIONAL and HATRED. did I say I hate religous people specifically? no, you are trying to state something as fact, when it isn't even there at all. that is called parinoia. obviously if I had hate for religons, it wouldn't be irrational either way. irrational means with no founding base to hold your point of view. it is really sad that you basically WANT me to be a biggot, so you can try to (and fail) disprove everything I say. in fact, you seem more like the irrational biggot. george, alot of your comments, really have no bearing to the paragraphs you were addressing. in fact, I believe most of the comments had absolutely nothing to do with my statements. anyone can clearly see that. instead of attacking weak points in my statements (if any) you are making up weak points, and thinking you are exploiting them, when in reality, you aren't even on the same topic. "You think I am stupid and weak minded because I believe in God. THAT is bigotry. GET IT yet?" no, i KNOW you are weak minded. you've already proven that with your replies. EXAMPLE: "weird, how do you brandish the biggotry if it is under a cloak? wouldn't that in fact NOT BE brandishing at all?! --- Actually your a bigot and you don't even Know it. LOL, You hide your bigotry under the quise of being more intelligent because WE believe. You think I am stupid and weak minded because I believe in God. THAT is bigotry. GET IT yet?" ok, so HOW does my statement say I am a biggot? also, this sentence makes no sense... "You hide your bigotry under the quise of being more intelligent because WE believe." ok, I hide my biggotry under a veil of intelligence BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE? let me ask WTF. let me state that again too, I HIDE MY BIGGOTRY UNDER A VEIL OF INTELLIGENCE ---BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE! " to the Board. Your Boardname is a perfect fit. Peace." I assume you mean plastik, as in 'fake'. funny how religous people can twist anything and everything and think it is an advantage to them. always thinking negative. plastik could be because I am flexible, versatile, and colorful. light weight/outgoing. see the positive? you should try it sometime. infact, religon and bigotry go hand in hand. you hate the devil because you are told to hate him. is that not biggotry? have you ever met him? it is irrational to hate someone you never met, let alone even talked to. has he ever done anything to you? no, so your hate is irrational, making you a biggot. churches hate the gays. that is irrational and biggotry. people of other religons are hated by users of the church, that is biggotry.
All very interesting points: I believe that 'something' created us and our existence. If you want to call it 'God' that's fine. However, I don't believe in a 'God' the rewards or punishes our actions. If so, why did six milion Jews die during WWII or why do all those people die in natural and unnatural disasters. We're they all 'bad'? Did they all deserve to get 'punished'? On the other side, we have people who 'pray' for things to be granted by 'God'. Makes me laugh when a sports team prays to 'God' for victory. Why? Is the other team 'evil'? LOL If there is a 'God' , our existence is the only thing owed to 'Him/Her'. There is a Rush song called 'Freewill' that sums up how I feel about this pretty well: There are those who think that life Has nothing left to chance With a host of holy horrors To direct our aimless dance A planet of playthings We dance on the strings Of powers we cannot perceive "the stars aren't aligned --- Or the gods are malign" Blame is better to give than receive You can choose a ready guide In some celestial voice If you choose not to decide You still have made a choice You can choose from phantom fears And kindness that can kill I will choose a path that's clear I will choose free will There are those who think that they've been dealt a losing hand The cards were stacked against them --- They weren't born in lotus-land All preordained A prisoner in chains A victim of venomous fate Kicked in the face You can't pray for a place In heaven's unearthly estate Each of us A cell of awareness Imperfect and incomplete Genetic blends With uncertain ends On a fortune hunt That's far too fleet... On the 'animal' debate: to think that animals don't have feelings and act only from 'instinct' doesn't make sense to me. Their reasoning powers may be limited compared to humans (OK,OK, MOST humans lol), but they are ther nontheless. Why does a dog 'like' some people and 'not like' others? There must be some form of judgement going on there. I read a book recently called,"How Dogs Think" that was very interesting and seemed to support this. I TOTALLY agree that any of these discussions should be about RESPECTING the other person's point of view. After all, we're not animals, are we??? LOL
I pray to God..not jesus, lord, holy spirit, buddha, muhammed, or any other god out there.. I just say GOD...that's all i have ever addressed him/her/it as..but to push your religious beliefs like it 's gotta be true cause the preacher says so it total BS and everyone here know's that. I grew up pentacostal..very strict....but once you come close to death you realize that there is more out there than what the hypocrit in the pullpit is spewing.. When you see the HOLY people in the church in the same porno store as you visit..you know somethings up! Cause they are then preaching about how they are trying to get one closed down in church the next sunday... I have come to the conclusion that the world changes drastically every generation...and soon the world will go through another drastic change..when generation X or whatever we were in the late 80's early 90's takes power in places in the world.. People's views on government, religion, sex and drugs have all changed....and it will change again. Our churches want to keep things in the dark ages..hell i had a preacher tell me to vote republican or i was sinning against god...come on people think for your selves and don't let the gov or a church do it for you.
There it is right there and thank you Mr.W. I HAVE been dead and therefore I KNOW my conciousness went on once it left this physical body. Can I explain what I experienced? HELL no! (no pun intended) All I can say is YES...there is more when we leave this body. For me it was neither heaven nor hell......I believe those two things are created by our own minds right here on this physical plane. I do know this....wherever I was.....I felt a calming peace like nothing I have ever experienced in this lifetime and I did NOT want to come back, but on the other hand I saw things in my 'minds eye' that shook me to my core. I feel I wasshown the future, but that's just my best guess. Thing is the core of my existance was still there and it was outside of time and space. Where I was is anybody's guess but I do know I didn't just cease to exist. BTW...JD.....were ARE just animals ourselves. :icon_confused:
Respect??? Well that was not nice....remember what "Thumper's Mom" said...if you have nothing nice to say>>>say nothing. Anywhos....can't we all disagree to agree>>>>RESPECT!! Respect can go a LONG way. Yanno the beauty of it is we are all differ....have our own opinion's and like I have said many times and will say it again. This world would be boring without diversity. Just a thought Peace~jersey
Plastik, Your past responses are there for all to see. Maybe if you read them enough you'll see the hatred and lies. I wish you peace and happiness in life. I am done discussing this with you.
obviously you are done discussing this because there is nothing for you to point out. you can't exactly back it up when you say these lies, because you can't put words in my mouth here. the text is always there, on record. you can hate WHAT PEOPLE DO without HATING THEM AS AN INDIVIDUAL PERSON. point out anywhere I previously stated 'I hate all religous people'. lol and what lies? I'm sorry I'm not a story book like the bible, I am telling facts. even if you don't want to hear them or believe in them, regardless, they are still FACTS. LOL, and finally, you said before that you would 'Pound the shit out of me if we met in real life', THEN you say "I wish you peace and happiness in life. I am done discussing this with you." dude, you really need to get checked out...you bipolar? have trouble making up your mind? got bad mood swings? Obviously you need some professional help. because you can't decide whether to pound me or wish me peace and happiness. no, I'm not the one making it hard for you to explain yourself. reality is. And you don't even realize. I am the non-violent unbeliever. and you are the violent believer. I am here to argue facts, fighting with words and thoughts. you can barely do even that (because you are co-dependent on religon) so you resort to the only thing you can do, violence. the type of people that want to 'pound you' for your opinions and ideals (and facts), is not the type of person that should be in society. nor in a church by all intents and purposes. you know what they call people like that? biggots and dictators.
Are you reading what I am??? LOL I just found the fact he called Haze's thread a "moronic story" not very nice. As I said...respect goes a long way! Haze is always respectful and a frd to many of us here at GK and has been for quite some time. Yes good points have been made by many.... I also see a few who like to belittle or take shot's at fellow member's when trying to express an opinion or prove a point. Remember...once you start calling names...you lost the debate. Peace~Jersey
well you stated, lets all disagree to agree....the proper term is 'agree to disagree' that was what I was getting at. guess you didn't notice :laughing5:
LOL>>>sorry had a stoner moment when I posted that and yah I meant it the other way around! My bad... Peace~JG
God and the Universe I ascribe to the "Big Bang" theory myself. God said " Bang" and there it was! Seriously though, three things I've learned never to discuss with people are religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin!
Miss Manners, or Emily Post or some damn etiquette person once said: "You should never discuss politics or religion....you never know who may offend." So I say: "Ah...Fuck her!" Just trying to lighten the mood!
