May Donald Trump's Soul Rot in Hell

Discussion in 'Politics' started by SuperMoChombo, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. SuperMoChombo

    SuperMoChombo Well-Known Member

    About statues - this is a tough one for me to think through. As a kid my dad took me to all the historic stuff like museums, monticello, williamsburg, etc and near our house was the battle of new market. Actually where he lives now is about a mile from the battle of cross keys, and the church I attended as a kid was basically on the battlefield. The rival high school was Turner Ashby High, named after a southern civil war general. My high school was named after a politician who was also a slave owner.

    Anyway, at the battle of new market there is now a museum and something called the "Hall of Valor" which is a monument commemorating the bravery of VMI cadets who fought at new market and died. I've been to that museum a bunch of times.

    So why remove statues? It almost seems like we are trying to nerf the world for the eggshell plaintiff. But in reality the way I see the civil war is not the way everybody sees it. I see it as a historical novelty made all the more fascinating by its brutality and heartbreak. I don't associate it with slavery at all, because I adopted the half-truth that the civil was was about states rights to succeed from the union. But to say that slavery wasn't THE key issue dividing the states and driving the wedge is a lie. Slavery and the economics it created was what the south was fighting for, not some lofty political theory about the right to leave the country and make your own new one. Now its true the soldiers and generals who actually did the fighting and dying were not all slave owners and some probably were personally against slavery, but it doesn't change the fact that the war itself was fought to preserve slavery.

    The enslaved people, who continued to be hunted down and murdered by the klan well into the 60's, and who to this day are shot by cops at an alarming rate, probably see the civil war differently than I do. If I were black I might still be interested in the historic novelty of the war, but I probably wouldn't been to keen on glorifying its heros.
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  2. SuperMoChombo

    SuperMoChombo Well-Known Member

  3. SuperMoChombo

    SuperMoChombo Well-Known Member

    Interestingly a lot of the battle reinactors play either rebels or Yankees depending on the needs of the event, and a lot of them stay in period correct campsites/ costumes where historic authenticity is the coin of the realm. A lot of history buffs - they make their own reproduction stuff.

    I've been flat picking fiddle tunes since I was 12. I'm a scots Irish hillbilly from va. I think it's time to take the statues down. I've been around some racists including my own family and it's sad and ugly. It's a mark of backwards ignorance. Weakness. Something to hide. How many times did I hear "grandpa! There are kids here!"

    It's an easy concept to grasp, that slavery is morally repugnant. It is the most basic violation of the most basic rule: do unto others as you would have them do to you. Apparently lost on our august president.
  4. SuperMoChombo

    SuperMoChombo Well-Known Member

  5. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    While President Jackson, the constructor of Native American genocide, looks on proudly. Fitting. No wonder this tool of a President doesn't get it.

    By the by...did you know Fred Drumpf was arrested participating in a Klan rally? So DJT's papa was a Klansman (or Klan sympathizer) and somehow Pres. Tiny Hands wants us to believe he knows nothing about white supremacists in America. Pretty unbelievable for a guy who reveres his father if you ask me.
  6. SuperMoChombo

    SuperMoChombo Well-Known Member

  7. bigbudztoo

    bigbudztoo growin the good stuff

    In regards to the statue issue, Since Martin Luther King was anti-gay, when does his statues come down ? It falls in line with the logic of taking down the others, so why not ?
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  8. SuperMoChombo

    SuperMoChombo Well-Known Member

    I thought about that. I mean Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, etc. owned slaves. The question is what made them famous and deserving of public adoration, and what do you want to celebrate or commemorate as a society? MLK's most memorable contribution was NOT that he was the champion of an anti-gay movement. If that had been all he was, he wouldn't have a National Holiday named after him. Moreover, there are not statues of MLK in front of 700 courthouses in rural america, placed there by the daughters of the anti-gay world during the height of the gay crow laws.

    "His slaves' ownership of dogs also troubled and economically threatened George Washington. They apparently trained the animals quite well. "It is astonishing to see the command under which their dogs are," Washington commented to his manager Anthony Whiting in 1792. Although the slaves probably kept the dogs ostensibly for hunting, both men felt that they used the dogs during "night robberies" to round up Mount Vernon sheep, which they then sold to certain outside "receivers." Washington and Whiting also feared that dogs might kill the sheep. Washington eventually ordered Whiting to decide which dog or dogs to keep on each farm, then kill all the others. Afterward, "if any negro presumes under any presence whatsoever, to preserve, or bring one into the family. . .," Washington proclaimed, "he shall be severely punished, and the dog hanged." Washington was not the only plantation owner to resort to such drastic measures; Thomas Jefferson, on at least one occasion, ordered the destruction of all dogs belonging to his slaves, while permitting his overseer to retain a pair for his own use. At least one of the condemned dogs was hung as a disciplinary warning to the Monticello slaves."
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
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  9. SuperMoChombo

    SuperMoChombo Well-Known Member

    Anyone notice how many people in the above pic are still working at the white house?
  10. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    Since we only have one excerpt of MLK Jr discussing the issue of LGBT and it's rather ahead of popular thinking at the time, and, that his widow Corretta Scott King carried on his work and is shone to have been a supporter of LGBT rights before her death.....I'm thinking MLK Jr would have evolved his view as knowledge increased much the same way his wife did. He certainly didn't want to own gay people as property or desire they live in a segregated society. Those two differences alone makes the comparison absurd.

    So are you guys denying the symbolism such monuments carry? This is an excerpt of a piece written back when South Carolina removed the Confederate battle flag from it's capitol dome. The author is a respected Southern historian who puts things much more clearly than I can. You can read the entirety of the article about the history of South Carolina and it's flag problems in the following link. It still hits pretty much on point today with the Civil War statues.

    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
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  11. SuperMoChombo

    SuperMoChombo Well-Known Member

    The modern white southern factory worker is the model New American Slave. The perfect believer denizen of Trumps mad realm, committed at the core to shreds of past power however corrupt and steeped in blood. Grasping at heritage.

    Ahhhh the good ole days when we could plunder at will and be lauded as capitalist successes. America was built on a model of prosperity that depends on an underclass of exploited masses.

  12. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    Ya know, I been catching a bunch of the news blabs about Pres. Tiny Hands take on Charlottesville. He says peaceful protesters, good people, were there against the taking down of the Lee statue. He saw them on TV and news clips.

    Here's my extended take on it; To DJt they look peaceful because that's his childhood norm. He's used to grown men shouting racist chants and being a threatening force. It's what he experienced as a child in Queens at the foot of his father. Not saying he's a total racist himself, just that he's been enured to the ugliness. To him those people aren't threatening at all. They're the men he grew up with and respected.

    Just spitballing speculation as to why the President is insane.

    Btw...chugging the chowder of DJt's version of Charlottesville gives cover to assholes like this.

    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  13. Justcheckingitout

    Justcheckingitout GK Old Timer

    They wanted to have a free speech "speech" at a local university, all of sudden people who think everyone on one side of a protest is "BAD" somehow got the local gov to have the speech cancled, same with several other protest or marchs for free speech around the state, Talk about communism at its finest. Blocking peoples free speach but allowing another side to do as they wish. Anyone see anything wrong with this? My take on everyone on one side is not a bad apple. If bad apples show up and cause violence, there is laws against that, but its in the constitution we are allowed free speech, you can see thats changed.
  14. SuperMoChombo

    SuperMoChombo Well-Known Member

    just in case you didn't know, there is a limit on "free" speech. You can't shout fire in a crowded movie theatre. That's not really the issue here but for what it's worth, the recent Boston "free speech" rally was a really just a right wing party. And note they remain a vast minority. Always a tiny crazy fringe group thank god and the numbers that showed up to exercise their rights prove it.

    What are you disgruntled about?
    Trump applauded the liberal counter protesters, even while trying to provoke an incident by tweeting about "anti-police agitators". There was little violence however.

    What is it with the commie crap?
  15. Justcheckingitout

    Justcheckingitout GK Old Timer

    Just saying free speech is a free country idea, way of life unlike in other countries. free speech is free speech. Start changing that and other things will start changing, If decent peacefull folks could protest with out all the haters and trouble makers showing up and causing problems would be great, but you cant condem the whole crowd for the bad apples that show up has been my main debate here.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
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  16. Justcheckingitout

    Justcheckingitout GK Old Timer

    "Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
    (Religion was in print that way when I copied it)

    We all have seen this and know what it is, there are those who will interpet it their own way or try to say who ever they dont agree with, this doesnt partain to them, but it goes for every single American no matter who you are or what you believe in. This is the law on "free" speech in our country. everyone is entitled to protest their opinion or grievance, its when people show up fighting that laws get broken. Also there are hate crime laws which happen on both sides, yes more on one side I agree on that, but if I show up to protest removing a statue its not a crime. Just like its not a crime to protest the the statue and wanting it removed. Can we agree on that part?

    Those who show up to protest in a peacefull way (on both sides as I beat this dead horse emoji) its not fair to condem them or all of one side for the bad apples that were there, again the black woman that was there to protest the removal of the statue, she wasnt apart of the hate group and there were others on that side that were not part of the hate groups, so how are they all bad is my other main point?
  17. SuperMoChombo

    SuperMoChombo Well-Known Member

    I think the right wingers are feeling left out here. they can't outwardly side with the nazis, but they sure as hell don't want to side with the libturds. what to do??? I know, focus on free speech! Yeah that's it, this is all because america has a history of suppressing speech. like this thread. about to get shut down.
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  18. Justcheckingitout

    Justcheckingitout GK Old Timer

    , I just thought it was fair to say everyone is allowed to voice their opinion and everyones opinion on one side is not all racist.
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  19. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    Phoenix.....ugh. What a freak show. Lying POS.

    Charlottesville- You're saying one of these torch carrying chanting pieces of shit isn't racist? If you're not racist and you're marching shoulder to shoulder with Nazi's and Klansmen, don't you think you're on the wrong side?

    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  20. Lvstickybud

    Lvstickybud Bongmaster

    So you didn't see this? Or is the man with the "torch" a Nazi?

    See, assholes on BOTH sides and yes, he's a "racist" too.

    Attached Files:

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