ss, get educated: Clinton didn't invade Iraq, under pressure from the hawks he bombed military installations prohibited by the UN. It's really funny seeing what ss has to say about anti-war demonstations. 99% of the protestors I know are anti-war, plain and simple. Some may be against this war, some may be against 'illegal' wars (attacking countries who haven't done anything to us or are ever likely to), some are against all war. Why people lay down in the street: A number of reasons. One is to show our level of committment against jr's illegal war. Another is to 'inconvience' the police and courts. When the levels of protests get to where the gov't realizes that they no longer have support for the war, they may bow to the will of the people (unlikely for the illegally appointed president we have now but not to the entire gov't). Please don't connect thugs with people excercising their constitutional rights. Btw, during the 60's, while peacefully protesting the Viet Nam war, I and my fellow patriots were often attacked and beaten, sometimes savagely, by the police. A reason to be pissed off and maybe throw a brick through a window?
Ranger, why throw a brick through 'someone elses' window because the police attacked you?...Here wait, let me light YOUR house on fire because your neighbors dog bit me... now does that make sense? There is no excuse. Those people are NOT for peace, they are thugs looking for an excuse to riot, vandalize, and break the law...I compare it to the Rodney King riots, 75% of those people couldnt give a piss about Rodney King they just wanted an excuse to loot and kill...
Looters are NOT anti-war protestors. Please stop comparing ciminals with people legally exercisizing their contitution rights. That's like comparing the D.C. snipers with all gun-owners. What would you do if the cops bashed in your mom's head with metal bars for being at a public park? And if you knew that the courts wouldn't do anything to the cops? In 1970 I attended a free concert in Elysian Park in L.A. The cops saw a woman smoking a joint and attacked her, ripping off half her clothes in the process. The crowd surrounded the cops, making a human chain so the cops couldn't drag her away. The cops began to riot, wading into the crowd and beating people. Then The cops declared it an 'unlawful assembly' and ordered people to disperse. I witnessed a man obeying, pushing his infant son in a baby carriage. Apparently this wasn't fast enough for the cops. I saw an L.A.P.D. thug stomp down on the infant while beating the baby's father with a metal bar. Another cop shot into the crowd of fleeing American's, wounding half a dozen and killing one (the survivors, shot in the back, were arrested and charged with resisting arrest). Shortly after that I witnessed people trashing a police car. I don't blame them. p.s. My friend took pictures of the cops firing into the crowd. The pictures were published the next day in the papers, with my friends name as the photographer. He has a very unusual name. That night, the cops showed up at my friends apt., tore the place up looking for the negative's (which weren't there) and roughed him and his girlfriend up. p.p.s. 10 days later the police 'found' a body in the bushes in Elysian Park, killed with a .38 bullet wound. The police said he was a victim of 'a sniper'.
Must of been mistaken, I thought you were justifying destroying the property of those that have nothing whatsoever to do with the actions of the police ie breaking business windows... Heres a good one for you Ranger back in 1990 I was 4 hours late to work because of a "protest" that involved a group of people stopping traffic on the bridge at 8am by driving 2 mph in both lanes then stopping altogether and chaining themselves to their cars and the guard rails...Can guarantee you this everyone on their way to work that morning wasnt anymore sympathetic to those morons cause after that assanine stunt in fact it had the opposite effect. More people need to use those roads than simply Government officials dont the "Peace" protestors get that?. Thats the problem some of you guys are willing to do anything it takes to get your point across even if that means putting the average citizen out... Take a sign and march down the sidewalk chanting peace thats fine but when you start lieing in the streets backing up traffic making everyday citizens late for work and whatever else, when you start destroying public and private property because your upset at the police, and when you start throwing things at people for no justifiable reason except to get attention that is NOT a peace protest that is a bunch of idiots gathering together to cause trouble. (Edited by Seizure Dude at 2:15 pm on Mar. 25, 2003)
I'm sure the parents of Rachel Corrie (US peace activist "run over" by an Israeli bulldozer destroying Palestinian houses in Rafah) will be comforted by your views on peaceful protest - these people bring attention to their cause through non-violent civil disobedience - remember South Africa? STOP THE WAR! http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/16/rafah.death/index.html
"When the levels of protests get to where the gov't realizes that they no longer have support for the war, they may bow to the will of the people (unlikely for the illegally appointed president we have now but not to the entire gov't). " Who told you that bush was "illegally" appointed? Wow thats a new one. And what does that have to do with anything? You honestly think that protesting helps? WHEN? Give me 1 time a protest has made a difference in war. I mean a real diffrerence, like stopped the war, or inconvienienced the gov't beyond the ability to cope and move on normally? Protestors are like speed bumps. We dont like em, but they are there and yeah they are annoying, they slow us down, we put them there, but you know, they still just get driven over everytime. Since speedbumps were invented. thump.
your lack of respect for human life astonishes me - but i suppose you're the kind of guy that supports the death penalty, owns a gun and would like to "shoot some CANS" at the weekend; MexiCANS, AfriCANS, Puerto RiCANS! show some humanity
aggy- she wasn't sitting down in front of the bulldozer. According to the people who were there, she was STANDING in front of the bulldozer waving her arms, intending to move out of harms way, when she slipped and fell. The bulldoing zionist said he "never saw her" before she fell. Right. SD--most anti-war rally's that turn violent are done so by police provocation. I've seen it with my own eyes. I saw mounted police ride up on a small group of people who were headed into Golden Gate Park to hear a post-march rock concert. The pigs on horses began clubbing them, including a pregnant woman, then rode away laughing, with blood dripping from their 'batons'. My friend Thom probably saved my life that day, because when I witnesses this, I started running towards them, the only thing in my mind was to wait until one of the cops swung his baton at me, side-step it, grab it and pull the bastard down off his horse and do to him what he had just done to the people walking in the park. My friend Thom tackled me from behind and held me down until the cops had ridden off. Instead, we tended to the wounded until paramedics arrived. Later I heard that the pregnant woman lost her baby. If protestors break out windows of businesses, some business owners might bring pressure on the police to stop provoking riots.
QUOTE Quote: from rangerdanger on 4:41 pm on Mar. 25, 2003 If protestors break out windows of businesses, some business owners might bring pressure on the police to stop provoking riots... Ranger is that you!?... (Edited by Seizure Dude at 11:45 am on Mar. 27, 2003)
"Why people lay down in the street: A number of reasons. One is to show our level of committment against jr's illegal war. Another is to 'inconvience' the police and courts." Okay ranger I guess this is a good time to be distracting the police from what they should be focused on. Isuues of possible local terrorism and real criminals. I dont live in a small town man! There are real crimes happening here. These people think there doing someone a service? WHO??!??!??!??!??! "When the levels of protests get to where the gov't realizes that they no longer have support for the war, they may bow to the will of the people" Do they think that they are GAINING support? Sounds like desperation to me. LOL "SD--most anti-war rally's that turn violent are done so by police provocation." Probably not most but there's no way to really prove that. Is there ranger? These people are committing civil disobedience. Show me where in the constitution does it state that we have the right to break the law? I think its more like frustration. How would you like to be the one dealing with these people? I know it would frustrate me if I was trying to pick up dead weight in the middle the street in rush hour traffic. Especially when the cop is probably in support of our being over there! (not that this protest turned violent, It didnt.) I realize there are ALOT of really fuckin screwed up cops, as a matter of fact I know one personally. That fucker scares me man. But to say that it is the police that cause the riots to get violent would be to ignore the fact that the SOURCE of the problem was the protester breaking the law in the first place! But thats okay. Right? , I dont think so. Also, I dont think that comparing the world of thirty or forty years ago to the present is relevant. You know better than I that there was alot of **** happening back then that people just dont put up with anymore. It gets exposed for what it is these days. Partly BECAUSE of the whole hippy movement, theres no doubt about that. But I really think you're a little paranoid man. (Edited by Waitingfortheson at 6:38 pm on Mar. 25, 2003)
There's no way to tell that police provoke riots? Yes there is, if you've seen it numerous times. I have lived through the 60's. It's the same. Protesters HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTEST. It's not civil disobience to disagree with the gov't. One reason tricky dickie started the peace talks was because of the huge unrest in the U.S. (and world-wide), evidenced by millions of people protesting. On civil disobedience and related crime: ever hear of The Boston Tea Party?
"There's no way to tell that police provoke riots?" I said MOST! read this again. I never said that they NEVER have. "Probably not most but there's no way to really prove that. Is there ranger?" And when did I say that it was civil disobedience to disagree with your government? I NEVER SAID IT AND I NEVER WILL SAY IT! I was referring to the CRIME of obstructing traffic or whatever the hell they called it here. It seems to me that it is usually a law being broken (no matter how small) that causes these things to get out of control not the police. That doesnt mean that there aint some ******* cop in the crowd just waiting for someone to beat on if they DO break the law. But who was the source of the conflict to begin with? I've noticed that if you respect a police officer you WILL get respect back. I am not what you would call conservative looking (I would have blended right into your anti-war rallies of the 60's) and I have had my share of run-ins (although usually minor) with the police (mostly in my teens and early twenties) and I've shown respect and gotten respect in every instance but one (fucker jacked me up against the car billy club to my throat because I asked him why we were stopped. Although I did ask in kind of a dis respectful tone, I will admit. ). He obviously was one of these FEW assholes that you seem to think rule the police forces across America. (Edited by Waitingfortheson at 7:48 pm on Mar. 25, 2003)
Again, personal experience has shown me different. I just posted an example of unprovoked police brutality and I've seen it happen and had it happen to me MANY times. With age comes respect and nowadays I am treated faily by the cops, especially since I moved to The Triangle. And as far as arresting/beating people for stepping off the sidewalk, I wonder how many people a day jaywalk in L.A., N.Y., etc. I don't usually see them beaten or hauled off to jail.
It goes both ways: Sometimes fanatical officers step out of line and sometimes fanatical protestors step out of line...It seems like the 60s had alot of officers provoking protestors and now it seems like alot of protestors provoke officers...Really all depends on what youve seen and where it took place I suppose.
