Hey we been needing a popcorn machine in Politics for a while now I agree that the military complex is a dodgy business but all the same,you gotta have respect for people who put their lives on the line for whatever reason in battle.I have friends and family who are time served in the Military.My cousin was a RAF harrier pilot for many years and iv got a friend STILL out in Afghan right this moment. The Afghan war i feel is just:2c:
lol Hank, While I'll agree the military industry has a lot to be desired, for you or anyone else to take aim at those who serve is ridiculous. Young men don't start wars, we don't make the rules, we just fight because that's what we are told to do....but without that where would America be? And to use blanket statements about this is even more laughable. You think we shouldn't have fought the British? How about the Germans? Now it is more for profit than not, but that's because of politicians, not service members I for one think the military needs to be greatly downscaled. Wont happen because it's the biggest pork barrel in this country and it would cost millions of jobs. But how this equates to an 18-19 year old kid fighting for his life is laughable, out right laughable. Is the kid a pussy for jumping on a grenade or getting fucked up to save his buddy? That's courage my man. Don't confuse those who fight with why they fight....and that only applies to post WWII America
Lol yourself. I'm talking about post-WW2 America for starters. Where would America be? Right here where we are now, but perhaps having spent the countless billions on education or healthcare, etc... instead of the military. That baloney about "fighting for our freedoms" is pure fiction. If America was getting attacked it would be honorable to join the military and fight, but when America just invades countries left and right for whatever economic reasons, it's not. People that volunteer to go kill other people that aren't threatening America in any way don't deserve respect, imo. They mouth the propaganda of self-sacrifice. Either they believe it, which makes them idiots, or they don't and join for other reasons like adventurism, to get money for college or whatever else. Either way, it's no good.
Really? How the FUCK did we win the Cold War? We would be right here...lmao!!!!!!!!!!!:bravo: You're right, people would just give us their money, they would keep the dollar as world currency, they would openly trade with us,oil (like it or not we still need it) would just flow freely into our ports, the rainbows would shine and the angels would sing....Jesus himself would lead the world in "kum ba yah my lord" only if we just dismantled our military. To take a small snippet of time and apply it across the board is extremely arrogant. Even more so, a very small tiny fraction of service members join to kill other people. Most is an escape out of poverty (that's why we have so many minorities in the armed forces) and the rest is because they come from a military family. Oh yea....there's the NK thing also, how's that going? Did you send a memo that we won't put up a fight if they decide to take the South. I'm sure that would make the North stand down:thumbsup:
The cold war is what allowed the military-industrial monster to get to it's current giganto proportions in the first place by throwing (wasting) jillions of tax dollars at it to stock up on all those nuclear missiles we'll never need or use. America would be a much better place if it hadn't even got into an arms race. I'm really sorry if you think the cold war was some kind of win. I guess if we didn't oppose the red menace we'd all be speaking Russian or some such nonsense. LMFAO! :F-A-Q: You are right about it being about money, though. That's what I've been saying all along. The difference though, is that you seem to think that's ok. I don't think wars should be fought over business interests, and more importantly, war shouldn't be a business in itself, which it is. Pretty simple to get, I think. And right again, most military people do join to get out of poverty or to get better economic opportunities. I've said the same many times here. It's for the money, not for "honor" or "self-sacrifce" or to "protect our freedoms" or whatever bullshit proganda keywords get drilled into people's brains via the media. And again, I don't think it's right. Talking a job that requires you to kill people for dubious, at best, reasons is mercenary. It's morally wrong, imo. As far as NK goes, if it goes to a military end, the U.S. being involved will definitely NOT result in less destruction.
I got rejected from the military a couple years back. Their reason given was because of a way I responded to a question. The Question was: if you are commanded to shoot the next person who comes out of a building, what do you do if that person was a kid? My response was, "Does he have a bomb strapped to his chest, or a gun in his hand? Does he pose a threat? If not, I wouldn't shoot him!" After this, I was told that I wouldn't follow orders... and had a problem with authority. If this is not an indicator of what the monster known as the US military does, then I don't know what else to say. I got rejected for not being willing to shoot an innocent person. I wanted to analyze things first. Funny thing was, Intel Analyst is what I was app for. Technically, my response was how an analyst would rationally respond.
No we wouldn't be speaking Russian, Europe would be though....or was that iron curtain and the commie block just for show? Totally agree with some of what you are saying, but you are way off base with others. We spend "jillions" to stop the commies, they tried to do the same but their economy couldn't handle it thus we won. But if you think for a second, that we didn't have bases and troops across Europe the Reds would have said, oh ok, half of Germany is fine, you are bullshitting yourself. And those dollars saved lives, imagine how many more would have died from another war. Or those additional people that would have lived under oppression. So yes, NATO did a good thing, absolutely bar none. IT saved lives. About NK, if we didn't have troops there the South would already have been bombed. What are you smoking? We are a deterrent, like it or not, it's a fact. Just our presence is enough to have stopped conflicts..or speed them up. That big military industry that you complain of saves lives all the time...every minute of everyday. Look at Japan, who does their security? Thats right, we do Not saying I approve of it all, but to act like it's clear cut, black and white, is showing how little knowledge you possess about it. Disco, not sure of Army standards but Marines have strict standards when it comes to that. I don't recall a question ever like that, but we had one at the swearing in that basically said "i have no religious or other reason that would stop me from killing in the line of duty"...don't remember the exact phrase, but that's basically what it said. The reason they ask you this is because they don't want an Amishman on the frontlines not firing his weapon. To think you would be asked to execute an unarmed kid is laughable...not saying it doesn't happen, but that's more because some people are just evil (even if wearing American Uniform).
I possess enough knowledge to know that your constant cheerleading of American military might is pathetic. Deterrent? What's that? Is that a new concept? Please enlighten me some more with your in-depth geopolitical analysis. Europe would have been speaking Russian? Lol. Doesn't seem too likely to me, but you are right in the spirit of the cold war; keeping the general public scared to death of the 'red menace' with worst case scenarios so no one questions the huge expansion of military spending. A scared population is easier to control and the State takes more power for itself in the name of protecting the huddled masses. Now that the military-industrial genie is out of the bottle it'll never go back in. It will continue to manufacture wars and export them around the globe, and feel self-righteous while doing it! Lol!
Innocents always die in wars, except the American military prefers the euphemism "collateral damage". Helps to dehumanize the killing.
Yea, it usually only involves collateral damage during combat, though. Not walking up to a building and busting a cap in someone.
Are you serious, while everyone would admit we over blew the Red Scare rape whistle, to say it wasn't true at all is a bigger joke. They weren't going to invade because our ARMY was there...the deterrent...same as NK. You don't believe that then tell us why the USSR collapsed by trying to stay in the arms race? Don't be one sided, because our side is fake..all made up. The Russians agreed to starve their own people and ruin a generation of their countrymen to give the US a leg up...because it's all fake You always use the strawman argument..everytime. I've said numerous times our military is to big, we do wrong sometimes, etc.; but that's a far cry from me screaming 'Merica...'Merica...'Merica. But to act like it's not even a deterrent to people is out right laughable to nth degree. I guess we don't need our Naval Presence off the coast of Africa, us the British and French should all pull back; I bet the pirates over there will say "gee, maybe we had this whole thing wrong, let's go get real jobs" I guess we have all those nukes just to cost money and headaches, same as the Russians because it was all a big conspiracy that we were going to kill each other....nope, never happened. Hell the missiles probably aren't even real. And if they are, we'll fuck, we don't need some American learning the Nuke trade taking care of missiles that don't exist so he can use those skills in the civilian world. It's all made up..fake And for heaven's sake, us evil Americans blew up our buildings, just to invade Afghanistan, because they are so stragitically located in the middle of bum fuck Asia. You act like everyone that has put on the uniform got together and voted to kill people in Iraq. It's all a big cabal and you're not part of it. I voted that to rape and kill all women between the ages of 18-24.....fucking crazy ass MG voted to steal all their cake (it's all he wanted)...shit I seen WWII vets voting to sodomize the men with jew peckers.....is that what you honestly think it's like? How out to lunch are you? You don't think that people enlisted even after the war started and didn't want to fight in Iraq, but orders are fucking orders? WTF is wrong with you? You don't think people have nightmares about the friends dying, but they don't care..they just scream 'Merica as loud as they can? You may want to make some friends on this side of the ocean, or at least take a trip back here to know what this country is like before you make asinine statements. BTW....how's that gun control going? You see because not even the left, middle, or right, can stomach what the far left or far right in this country is. That's why it won't go anywhere because guns don't magically kill people. US troops don't go out of there way to blow kids up. Most here disagree, but we can all agree with who the nuts and whackos are from the far right and the far left
opcorn2:Good stuff guys. Webby just approved a new popcorn machine for politics:eusa_dance: I agree with Hank,Aint no way us in Europe would ever be talking Russian though. Europes combined forces would topple Russia anyday. They wouldnt make it past Poland. On the flipside though i agree with nippie that our armies ARE a deterrent to Somali pirates,etc.. ...Anyways "Salted or sweet?"
Hey Apprentice They had Poland..and half of Germany And this at a time when Europe was trying to rebuild from WWII lightly salted
Ahh Nippie thats like me showing you a picture of Africa and comparing it to USA.Its not comparable. You got to remember that most of that russian map is wilderness and shit.The UK and western europe is DENSLEY populated man. Only reasons Russia got where they did in Europe is cos we had Germany fighting on one front and Russia in the other.We (the allies) literlly created a monster in Russia and to be fair to them,they knew we were gonna scavenge the ashes of germany and beyond and all they did was get there before us. I promise you that if Russia tried marching on western europe they would be stopped in their tracks.Anyone even thinks of storming near London (financial capital of europe) and our trident subs would be nuking them direct from Faslane in Glasgow,DEAD CERT.Fair enough we didnt always have them. The Russians are big dogs in their own yard and beyond but they would never make it past the backwoods of eastern europe. Aint no way they could keep their supply lines in tact which is the exact same problem Hitler had when he tried to invade them. They would need to try take ALL of scandanavia and control that region to have a hope in hell of attacking us.Being a small coastal island has its benefits. I know you Americans might not understand this but......SIZE ISNT EVERYTHING Ok,salted it isopcorn2: Hey its good to see Politics getting heated again,just like the old days.Might even start wearing my tin foil hat again!
No we have to place ourselves in the situation of the 50-60's..not now. This is what Hank is claiming isn't true. We were all peace love hunky dory back then. The red scare was all fake. Shit they use to give us fake books in school the had East and West Germany in it when I was in elementary school. But yea you are spot on about WWII and we let it happen, thus the cold war...the problem we are speaking of. But even now, you bring up your subs and missiles as a defense against the Russians. Hank thinks it's wrong to have em. So what do you do? Beg em not to invade? Same thing I was telling Hank, armies deter fighting as much as they fight. You know if you are gonna take an ass kicking, so most try to avoid the ass kicking when possible...human nature Bout the size thing:roffl: two fingers, come hither...works every time...much more effective than anything I know from every girl I've ever been with and there aint no shame in my game :dink:
LOL. Touche As for deterrants. You wont find me complaining that USA gave the UK the Trident program. Thanks to our fleet of nuclear subs on Glasgows Clydeside we wont be getting invaded anytime...EVER! lol. All i will say on the debate you and Hank are having is that yeah i always get a shiver down my spine when i see Einsenhowers final speech in office where he highlights the military machines threat etc. No doubt theres corruption but we cant generalise or call soldiers whatever. Most guys who join the army feel they are going to learn a good skillset,travel the world and maybe do their bit for their country. I know most of my mates joined just to go live the good life on our cyprus and germany bases,long before all this Iraq shit started. Most of my mates have now left bar one who loves it.His regular facebook updates from Afghan read "These crazy ragheads can fucking FIGHT!" and other gems from the frontline ,lol. I'll say it again,the Afghan war is justified.Iraq wasnt. I loved tony blair as a PM till he led our forces into that quagmire cos hes tainted the UK forces name now:sad4:
At least now we have fricken lasers on navel ships.......:bong2: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/04/09/video-new-navy-laser-can-shoot-down-drones-is-headed-for-the-persian-gulf/
I also find it funny that Bill Maher quoted the same wiki link tonight that was posted by somebody at the start of this thread. Of course, he used it in a completely different way than originally intended, but. (Just so yall know, Bill Maher is way left for me)
