PH Fluctuations in Hydro

J.E. don't bother with an EC/TDS meter for organic hydro. Organics are not eletro-conducive, therefore will not register on the meter.


But, it's a must for regular hydro.

 

Newfie- My solution is maintained at 78F I dont know if this is what you mean as cool. I don't have a method for colling but if res temp drops below 78 a heater comes on. It feels cool to the touch. (I know its because Im 98.6)


Useless- thanks for the tip, I my get one anyway for chem hydro; I'm not completely sold on the organic hydro yet.

 

Elightenment-jus like Useless;i've also


recently discovered if you jus simply switch to Organic Fertz...you can throw your TDS meter out the Window. TDS meters are usually indicators of when it'z time to flush/replacing your reservoir nutes. From personal experience...you can go a MONTH without flush/replacing your nutes...only if you go Organic Hydro!!!! Jus replace 20% of your nutes bi-weekly!!!


Just keep your ph inbetween 6.0 - 7.0....you'll have a healthy harvest!!!


(Edited by hellostupid at 5:09 pm on June 9, 2003)

 

Well i have a question but let me start with the lo-down.


About a year ago when i was doing some clones i decided to use filtered tap water instead of distilled like i usually did. First off to me clones seem to root better in 5.5-6.0 ph water. Well i checked the tap water and the PH was off the scale 8.0 and above.I ran it through a NSA water filter and it was 7.0 on the dot. I dropped the PH w/ PH down and for some reason i had to use twice the normal amount to drop it. I didn't think anything of it and filled the res and about 8 days later the clones hadn't even started to root. I checked the PH and it was off the scale again.I repeated the process with fresh water and this time checked the PH the next day and it was off the scale.This time i did an experiment with a gallon of filtered water adjusted to 5.5.After 6 hours the PH started going up again and by the morning it was off the scale. I did some research and what i could gather was that even my filtered water may have contained too much calcium.Anyone heard of this? Short of having to buy a RO filter can it be corrected? I would hate to try Hydro and have to buy massive amounts of distilled water each time. Note when i use distilled water i adjust it with PH down and it stays there.

 

Hey Greenthumb maybe I can help with this one. Did you treat for chlorine? I usually add a few drop of DeChlor to my res. There is a big long reason that Cl affects the pH, I started to write it but I seemed to go in circles alot and not make my point. Maybe some other night when I'm feeling smart And yes the Ca has something to do with that, basically you need to remove or lock out chlorine from Ca.


If you have an aquarium you can use a phosphate test kit to test your tap water. You may also have high phosphate which will also make the pH creep up. To explain this, the pH down you add just donates Hydrogen from the phosphoric acid to the more reactive and electron hungry phosphates.


Hope this helps, I'm just hoping I made sense. I'm not sure how deep to go on this subject

 

Funny, i have tha very same problem with Tap Water...that'z why i don't use it!


Yes. I agree that calcium will raise Your Ph.


About Faucet Filtered Water-


1)Can it filter Calcium?I know RO filters can...becuz Reverse Osmosis Filters can Filter anything "dissolved" in Water. Home faucet type "charcoal filters" can't. Charcoal filters can only filter anything "suspended" in water; usually suspended in colloidal form(smallest undissolvable particle)


2)Is calcium dissolved in water? Or is it in Colloidal form merely "suspended" in water?Only thru RO; can a dissolved substance be filtered from water...but RO is just too damn expensive.


3)Distilled Water-is store bought water.The cheapest i could find it wuz 5gallons per dollar. Trust me...i did not want to use distilled water becuz it wuz so much more expensive than filtered at home water!!!


Conclusion: i also failed to stabilize Filtered Tap Water...so i had to resort to buying Distilled H2O. That fact of the matter is that even WaterStores only use Reverse Osmosis ;proving that RO Water is the best water fer Cannabis. I promoted at-home faucet water purifiers before...but as of late i am no longer confident that itz safe to use with Cannaibis Hydro...but maybe it'z only safe fer Soil Growers. On the plus side, with Store bought water...i know fer a fact that with Organic Fertz; anyone can


double their period inbetween flushingz. As for me, i feel it isn't necessary to change your Bioponic Rezzy every 2 wkz...i feel every 4wkz is more than adequate!!! Honestly, since i reluctantly made the switch to RO Water...using Organic fertz with Hydro has been worthwhile.My rezzy takes $3 to fill, and about $5 more each month jus to Top it Off...since they consume about a gallon per day...so i spend 'bout $8 per month on good water alone...which isn't really that bad ...come to think of it...


(Edited by hellostupid at 5:54 am on June 10, 2003)

 

I know that you want a certain amount of calcium in your water. Take a ppm reading of plain old tap water. Ideal calcium is about 250 ppm. Anything less, you will need to add Ca. If it is over 400 ppm, you gotta reduce the calcium amounts by filtering. If you use R.O. you will have to provide calcium.


Also, are you letting your water sit for 12-24 hours before adjusting PH? Water must be stable at room temp. and it also gets rid of the chlorine.


I never had to deal with this issue using Supernatural Brand ferts because they have ph buffers that set the ressy to ideal ph and keep it there.


Also, I put this in another thread. But EC/TDS can be used with SOME ferts. All the organic ferts I tried before i put my TDS meter on and got no reading. On the "bat poop soup" I measured 2800 ppm. Maybe it has to do with the source? Don't know yet, I need to investigate and will let you know as soon I can.

 

I did some more checking on the NSA water filter and it is a charcoal one.it said it filters out chlorine but not calcium,phosphate and a few other nasties. i could live with $1 for 5 gallons,around here the cheapest is 58 cents a gallon.The problem is lugging all that water around every week. Yes useless it's supposed to filter out chlorine but just in case i let it sit for 24 hours. Is there any way to lock out some of the calcium and phosphate?

 

OK GT420, I had to do some digging but so far I'm thinking you would have to add some element containing a carboxyl group, these are amino acids, proteins and fatty acids. When a carboxyl group combines with a hydroxyl (OH-, base)it forms a carboxylic acid which would help your pH and carboxylic acids are very stable because of something called electron affinity. I still need to figure out exactly what you could use as your carboxyl, give me some time, I'll figure it out.


Also, do you use ferts for your clones when rooting? I would think an organic fert should have something in the form of a carboxyl that should help stabilize the pH and would be supported by Useless' stable pH. As he posted earlier.


(Edited by Joint Effort at 1:16 am on June 11, 2003)

 

Damn thanks for the help Joint. i don't use ferts for clones but i do use liquid karma which contains aminos.


The introduction of Liquid KarmaTM represents a major and significant breakthrough in plant nutrition. This is because Liquid KarmaTM contains a full complement of metabolically active organic compounds not found in regular plant foods or supplements. These unique compounds are absorbed immediately and act as regulatory signals, activators or catalysts to produce synchronized and accelerated growth under all conditions. Liquid KarmaTM functions as a growth engine because its high metabolic activity produces a large amount of energy which is immediately transformed to growth.


Biochemical Composition


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A. Fermented Compost Solution - prepared by exhaustive bacterial and enzymatic fermentation of fish meal, composted seabird guano, spirulina, sea kelp, and soybean meal. In order to enhance the fermentation process and obtain a product which contains the highest possible biological activity, the fermentation is carried out in different stages in the presence of humic acid, citric acid, raw sugar cane, complex carbohydrates, glucose fructose and over 72 trace elements. Fermented Compost Solution prepared in this manner is used by an increasing number of organic gardeners to obtain luxuriant vegetative growth, huge flowers and flavorful fruits and vegetables.


B. Amino Acids - Liquid KarmaTM contains essential amino acids which are derived from casein hydrolysate and soybean protein hydrolysate. Amino acids are important plant nutrients because they serve as building blocks for structural proteins and enzymes. In addition, amino acids are also involved in the activation of transfer ribonucleic acids (t-RNAs) and DNA synthesis. The following amino acids are present in Liquid KarmaTM: glycine, alanine, valine, leucine, isoleucine, serine, threonine, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, asparagine, glutamine, lysine, arginine, histidine, cysteine, cystine, methionine, proline, phenylalanine, tyrosine, and tryptophan.


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Seed germination 5 ml/gallon Transplanting 15 ml/gallon


Vegetative growth 10-15 ml/gallon Rooting 15-20 ml/gallon


Flowering 15-20 ml/gallon


Ingredients


Liquid KarmaTM contains the following amino acids; glycine, alanine, valine, leucine, isoleucine, sereine, threonine,apartic acid, glutamic acid, aspargine, glutamine, lysine, arginine, histidine, cysteine, cystine, methionine, proline, phenylalanine, tyrosine, and tryptophan. Vitamins; riboflavin, thiamine, pyridoxine, ascorbic acid, and a full array of other water soluble vitamins. Carbohydrates; sucrose, fructose, cellulose. Phytohormones; Indole-3-acetic acid, trans-6-(4-hydroxy-3-methybut-2-enyl) amino purine. hydrolysate, soy protein hydrolysate, fermented yeast extract, aqueous extracts of etiolated wheat coleoptiles, and Zea mays, aloe vera extract, yucca extract, humic acid, fulvic acid, and kelp seaweed extract. Invitro tissue culture with six-week old tobacco plants.


So if i were to use DWC with organics i might not have a problem with high PH considering Useless said the PH will dive with organics?

 

Looks like you have it covered, and all in one bottle LOL. I have a clue about chemistry and how it works but I have a tougher time app it to plant biology. Glad I could have helped but you have helped me just as much, if not more. Take care, JE.

 

Wow...it soundz custom-made ;jus fer growing Superb Organic Pot...Awsome!!! Man, i gotta find out how much that stuff goes fer...very informative...


(Edited by hellostupid at 12:55 am on June 12, 2003)

 

hellostupid if you are referring to liquid karma,it's $20.00 a quart which lasts quite a while.

 

That's It!?! $20!?!


That certainly soundz alot cheaper than trying to make/mix it myself...


I like!

 

Hey GT420, in addition to all the info earlier you stated you were using rockwool for your clones. They have a natural pH of 8.6 and need to be treated for 24 hours in a solution with a pH of at least 6. This will also help maintain the correct pH.