The Debate vs.God, Religion & Government

Discussion in 'Smokers Lounge' started by snickelfritz, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. ResinRubber

    ResinRubber Civilly disobedient/Mod

    On a side note....You know what famous modern economist was a contemporary and dear friend of Ayn Rand?

    Alan Greenspan........had to think about THAT one for awhile.
  2. blackprince11

    blackprince11 Prince of the Hindu Kush

    Yes!!! Nail on the head.
  3. Toker2

    Toker2 Looking at a hot ass

    I'm not sure who is ON my ''side'' anymore man.

    One thing your side dismisses as well as non believers is the testimony

    of many Of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

    I can attest to the fact that He is real, but more often than not I'm accused of being crazy.......Or the well ya cant prove that one

    and Its true.

    I can not Prove God is real, But he can and does through the workings of the HS, and in other ways.

    But the cumulative amount of folks who can testify can not be just dismissed as mere insanity.

    Many in This world accepts the spirit of Christmas

    Spirits who tell of the future.

    Evil spirits, Conjuring spirits, In the ''spirit'' of things.

    the spirits of animals, of trees , of Earth even.......Yet the HS is dismissed

    as folk lore?

    You mentioned the argument who created God, well its no more logical

    to assume that nothing.......even and unknow.........created itself is it?

    I grant you it takes faith to believe in God as scripture maintains and is His will.

    I also stand by my statement it takes faith of some sort to believe nothing created itself to.

    We have archaeological evidences and verification in history of people places and events verified and described by scripture.

    We have scientific truths unknown to man until recently that a scholar

    of scripture would have know a thousand years ago.

    Example that the earth is in orbit, or that there are sea mounts.

    We have ancient accounts from NON biblical sources concerning events

    and People in scripture In fact the reliability of scripture stacked up against other ancient texts is undeniable, with many other ancient sources that collaborate events in scripture.

    One thing to remember too......Many claim to be Christian and are not.

    It is not a never ending battle though men make it so.

    All one has to do is read it , those wars were not nor ever will be sanctioned by scripture. The crusades?

    A joke by a group who called themselves Christians,some really believed it

    sadly they allowed popes and Kings think for them.

    It has been this way since Men choose to have a Man king rule over them not God.

    Name any instance when men claim to work for the diety and did such things and I'm sure i could debunk on a scriptural basis

    it as bullshit [wars, bullshit in the name of God etc....]

    Sorry it took so long to post, been hectic round here:passit:
  4. blackprince11

    blackprince11 Prince of the Hindu Kush

    He who has wisdom let him hear.....

    1. You can ATTEST to the fact that he is real? How?

    2. Just because alot of people believe somthing is true dosen't make somthing true. Neurological disorders are rampant in our society also, it dosent mean the rest of us that don't have them have missed the bus.

    3. All those people that worship trees and believe in fairies and sprites and elves and gnomes and die and leave all their earthly possessions to the village cow are all part of the same bs mindfuck that has been used to controll large populations since the beginning time.

    4. Noone claims that we as humans created ourselves. We are basically walking and talking organisms that have evolved from much simpler organisms through mutation and adaptation to our enviornment. You gonna tell me that an all powerful space-god creating us out of spit and dirt and breath is more plausable than that? Where'd the spit come from? Don't you need a mouth for that? What does god need with a mouth? Does he eat? Why does god need food? Don't you need lungs for breath? Why does god need lungs? What was he breathing with his "lungs" before he created the air? Do you see where I'm going with this line of questioning?

    5. I am an avid scholar of history. American, world, geological; you name a history and I can speak with knowlege and authority on that subject in specific detail. Believe me when I tell you that just because there are elements of truth in people and locations that are mentioned in the bible dosen't mean that the entirty of the biblical writings are validated. It is a great error to assume such a thing. For example: There is absolutely no archeological evidence whatsoever to support a worldwide flood. And even if there was how could all those people store enough food not only for themselves but for the animals that they were carrying? 2 of EVERY creature? Insects and birds included? How did they keep the animals from eating eachother and them? What about vegitation? Do you think we would have marijuana plants to grow today if all plantlife on earth was under dirty toxic water? What happened to all the dead bodies of the former inhabitants and animals of the world? There would have been an outbreak of diseases from the rotting carcases that would have wiped out all survivors of a world wide flood preventing them from re-populating the earth.

    The list goes on.......
  5. LionLoves420

    LionLoves420 Lazy Days In The Sun

    I tried to stay out of it, but...

    There are two, at the simplest, choices here:

    1. A God exists

    2. A God does not Exists

    Now, if 2 is true, none of these arguments, religions, or scientific dogmas really matter.

    If 1 is true, then you have two other logical choices:

    Either A. It matters which religion you adhere to because of that god's biases, or B. Shit still does not matter because the concept of an almighty entity caring what non-perfect creatures are doing is backwards and illogical.

    If A is true, then it is a crap shoot. Which of the multiple religions do you now choose? If it matters that much, then how to you know what is the right one?

    B helps prove itself a little better:

    You are a christian but believe homosexuality is OK. Bam, 99.9% of those who claim the same beliefs of you are either wrong, or you or wrong. If they are right, you are fucked in the afterlife.

    A good majority of Baptists think dancing is wrong, yet the rest of the Christians think the opposite. Who gambled their afterlife away doing the Watusi?

    The split dogma goes on and on. While it is hard for me to say Objectivism is true, there obviously some truths to the world, more so in the world of "religion." Fine, you all believe this, but which one of you is right? You say this is right, you say this is wrong.

    Basically it all does not matter.

    If you are a practicing religious person, I hope you do end up in a higher plane than others, way to devote your life. If you are not, I hope I am wrong and we either end up reincarnated together or in heaven for our good deeds, either way so we can party; but I am pretty sure the worms will be having the party despite our souls.
  6. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator


    Oh this is good.

    Why do people insist on debating religion when they know they are not going to change the other person's mind?

    Believe what you will.....when you die you'll know if you were right....or not.
  7. LionLoves420

    LionLoves420 Lazy Days In The Sun

    The perfect experiment. :smoke2:
  8. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator


    Remember this......

    'People are naturally stupid. They believe things either because they WANT to believe they are true, or are AFRAID they are true.'

    I was born and raised in the "Christian Religion" and I can say from first hand experience that religion uses fear to control their members. I personally fought the brainwashing and fear that I would go to Hell if I didn't believe as I should. My mom to this day STILL uses the line "What if I'm right?"....and I retort with...."What if I'M right?" Who cares? The truth is to each their own and the relationship YOU have with YOUR creator is between the two of you and nobody else. If you feel that your belief gives you peace then works for you, but anyone who wholly believes that they know the truth should have no reason to convince someone else of it. After all it's your own salvation that's in question, and if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're right, then you obviously are going to Heaven. You can't do the same for another person. Their salvation has to come from within. Truth has to find it's own way into their're not going to be the one that convinces them. If you think you can just look around....people are going to believe what they are going to believe...simple as that. Trying to convince them otherwise is a waste of energy you should be using for your own salvation.

    That said....I think we're a hybrid created by alien beings using 1/2 their DNA and 1/2 DNA from some form of primal humanoid native to Earth and that 'GOD' is a universal energy that encompasses all much like the 'Force' in Star Wars.'s MY beleif and I'm sticking to it. :tongue:

  9. blackprince11

    blackprince11 Prince of the Hindu Kush

    You understand, grasshopper.....

    I see what you're saying. It has kind of a Taoist/Bhuddist kind of aura to it. Kind of like impertinence; every living person alive today will most likely be dead 100 years from now. It's how the universe cleanses and rejuvinates itself. It reminds us of how small and insignificant most of us and our ideas and beliefs are in the grand scheme of things. I dig, man. I dig.
  10. snickelfritz

    snickelfritz Weed College Hall Monitor

    Because knowledge is gained in the sharing, Herb...

    If you all dig down deep... No matter what religion you are a part of, the basic premise is to live in peace, respect your neighbor and love one another.

    Unfortunately, evil has corrupted religion and now good people, brainwashed into believing what their masters want them to believe are turned into "martyrs" for some bullshit, invented cause that is "righteous" or "just".

    You are told that your religion is the "one true religion" and everyone else is wrong! Everyone else is evil for not believing what we've programmed your feeble little mind to believe!!! We own your ass!

    You have politicians trying to tell you to go out and make war against one another or In the name of God, King or Country.

    One person's "terrorist" is another person's "freedom fighter". People are so gullible that they play right into it. Hostility becomes commonplace. People become desensitized to the pain of their own existence.

    You get so buried in living the life of the worker bee, that, you forget how to truly live. Stress becomes the way of life.

    For some, they get caught up in the gang lifestyle. Fast money, fast women, fast cars... But with the downside of a fast, bloody death.

    Always having to look over your shoulder... Always having to be careful that a rival won't put his gun in your face and pull the trigger... You're always scared, but you gotta act all tough so no one will think you're a pussy. Every time you hear a loud noise you are ready to shit your pants. And I'll bet you have at least once. Everyone who has seen combat has soiled themselves a bit when the bullets start to fly, or the bombs get close... Or fought the urge to puke when you look at a mangled bloody mess that used to be a human being 10 seconds ago. Someone whose life you just took.

    Anyone who says they haven't is a damned liar... Or a complete psychopath...

    But, over time... If you're one of the ones that has enough time...

    You get to a point where you just don't give a shit anymore if you live or die. You get crazy & do stupid shit. Screw people over & die a very violent death. Your mother will mourn you... Your babydaddy never knew you & not many others really gave a shit about you anyway. Yeah... Livin' "gangsta" be great ain't it? :roulette:

    The governments don't care. They want you to kill each other. They are using you as an excuse to make more oppressive laws to restrict the rights of ALL the people. They created the entire situation that put you where you are because they made unjust laws that set you up for failure and keep you down.

    They don't have to enslave you... You're too busy killing each other over little chunks of chemical death that the government won't have to worry about you long.

    Dead "gangsta" or dead "junkie"... Dead is dead, right?

    Religions and governments seek to divide and destroy us through superstition, fear, intimidation, incarceration, etc... So, who sounds more like the true enemy?

    Live in peace, respect your neighbor and love one another, but always be prepared to defend yourself from tyranny.

    You want real "Hope & Change"? Then grow a brain and learn to think for yourselves!!!
  11. Toker2

    Toker2 Looking at a hot ass

    Cause its fucking fun and I get off on it.........:passit:
  12. Toker2

    Toker2 Looking at a hot ass

    Nor do I :passit:
  13. Toker2

    Toker2 Looking at a hot ass

    What exactly do you want to know? I know HIM and he leads me and convicts me .
  14. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

    To each his own I spose. :icon_scratch:

    Snick.....AMEN! :ebert:
  15. LionLoves420

    LionLoves420 Lazy Days In The Sun

    Toker, how do you FEEL him? That is is like FEELING you are right about the lottery, or FEELING you know you are going to get a job, or FEELING you know quantum physics is the only true science. It can not be proven what so ever other than through faith, which is not a truth.

    How do you discount that every story in the bible has been mirrored before and after in separate culture's literature? How does this piece of literature, "interpreted correctly" tell/teach us anything more than Alice's Adventures in Wonderland or Lord of the Flies? Human nature is human nature. Why does the deliverer of that message have to be divine for that to matter? How is EVERY hole through ALL the religions writings have to be explained by FAITH alone?

    To me, because most profits were Buddhas who were misinterpreted into being deists.

    I should have listened to Herb, but I just can not tolerate, at this point in my life, blind allegiance to something as logically ridiculous as ANY established religion.

    I just don't get it. Where is your proof other than faith? Where is your solid evidence other than a "feeling." How do you base your religious life off of something philosophers and astronomers started way before your bible was written?

    I have seen things through meditation that no one should see if they are to live here in consciousness. I have seen things through mushrooms that reflect our minds ability to comprehend these things. However, if I tried to explain this shit to you, would I not sound crazy? Why are the brainwashed able to see so easily while discounting the brained-drugged?

    I am just in that phase of my life where I want to punch religious people in the face, so please excuse me, but I do not understand.
  16. AverageJoe

    AverageJoe papa oom mow mow


    Amen, Brother :thumbsup:
  17. Toker2

    Toker2 Looking at a hot ass

    I'm cool with it......Im 6'2 and 220 lbs take your best shot hommie:passit:

    But we were talking about how the religious were viloent were we not?

    You just proved the point its nearly all MEN who have issues with violence
    LionLoves420 likes this.
  18. LionLoves420

    LionLoves420 Lazy Days In The Sun

    Though I am not going to take on all those points (I should have listened to Herb), I will soon.

    However: Though I doubt this will sound like anything but bullshit out of a freshman's mouth, I am 27, about two semesters away from a BA in Philosophy and minoring in religion.

    An Elites I know.

    But you have not proved, or responded directly to any points. I should not have to show you that stories in the Christian Bible are synonymous with the the Sumerians. That is the problem. They tell you about some great event like floods or some shit, and yet to forget the actual story came from a book 1000 years before your own; How can you just claim history, wrongly written, as your own, all the while calling it divine?

    Hell, some old friends from high school put a message on facebook about Christmas Trees being called "Holiday Trees," and they were very upset about it. I pointed out that the tradition of an ever-green was actually a pagan tradition.

    Their response was "yah, back then, but now it is for Christ."

    WHAT the fuck? So all of the sudden gods have switched importance?

    Same ceremonies, but different deity.
  19. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator

    And awaaaaaaay we go! :fly:

  20. ScottyG420

    ScottyG420 Marijuana Handler

    Im a Neo-Pagan.

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