This is when Jesus comes in handy!!!

"Evil" is based on one's perspective, as is good. If your perspective changes so does that which you previously considered evil or good. Who's version of evil do we accept? A muslim version? A Southern Baptist's? A Catholic? An old testament? A new testament version? A Gnostic's view of evil? All have varying definitions of what is evil yet are founded within the same contextual God of Abraham.


Good and evil are moral judgments based on human perspective. They are not spiritual constants.


But if they were.... spiritual constants from a higher authority that is...how is it God escapes culpability in the creation of such evil? How is it an all powerful being is locked in a dimension spanning battle of good vs evil and leaves it's creation to fend for itself? Doesn't sound too nice to me.


I guess the historical question of whether Christ lived or not is pretty much moot if one believes he was just a man. A philosopher of love for mankind. But then why do person's who believe this still attribute godlike powers to him? I get the answer of "just because it's easier." It's not a wrong answer...it's too simple an answer.


When kids grow up we tell them Santa was really just dad. The Easter Bunny is really a Hallmark creation from some old fertility custom. Do we eventually tell them Christ really isn't the way to heaven if we believe he was just a very devout man?

 

So the scriptures are correct and Jesus was more than a man? I posed this before...but don't you wonder why all the major miracles stopped when literacy began to flourish?


Many many people have claimed messiah status and many many before Christ were equally documented in arising from the dead. It's not an isolated mythology. Why is Christs claim any more valid?


Evil...sigh....evil is a point of perspective. It's provable and in action everyday when people interact. There is no human behavior that some culture hasn't believed, or does not believe, is "good".

 

That's fucking funny, bro. I try to keep my personal, Anti-theist, beliefs to myself. I'm with Ras, staying the fuck out of it and opcorn-2:.

 

A true Atheist you are then Jugg True Athesist dont feel the need to quash the story of Jesus nor any religions for that matter,they simply choose not to believe. Heres a post from snicklefritz who also was a firm Athesist-

Another good quote from another ex GK mod who also was Atheist-

If only all Athesist subscribed to this same doctrine,and religious folks too i gotta add.Then there would be no big issues or debates. Why do some feel the need to disprove totally what they cant accept?Same with religious foks,why do they persist in trying to prove their religion to be true and not just be content that they have their own salvation in hand? And with that im gonna bow out people.Peace:thumbsup:

 

So it's basically your judgement of Jesus being more humble or pious that gives more credence to the claim than say Simon of Peraea? His documentation comes from the same time and same sources as Christs. Record of Simon and his death at the hands of the Romans then rising 3 days later at the request of Gabriel is recorded in the Dead Sea Scrolls as having occurred 4 years before Christ.


Ap..I gotta say, the more we continue the more you're leaning on scripture and intuition than anything else.


asssit:


Here's my deal...believe what you believe, but UNDERSTAND exactly what it is that your belief supports and is founded upon.

 

Im done.

assit: Im seriously gonna move on from this thread cos i honestly feel iv more than explained why i accept or believe things and if im honest i dont feel the same can be said for the other side of the debate. I offer my views without prejudice or judgement and without aggression which you seem to not be able to do Lion.Again im not trying to be offensive here (or be offended) because these topics can lead to fall outs which is silly. Im not trying to attack you personally for your core values and i dont wish my coore values to be attacked either.If you chose not to believe i accept and respect that and all i wish is for you to accept and respect what i think in return. A debate is never won by someone insisting how right they are or by aggressively attacking the other side.Only by reason and explanation.I never intended to get into a debate about my personal beliefs and im pretty sure iv never mocked anyone for not believing the same as me.In fact i know for a fact iv never even tried to express my opinions on such things nevermind insist im the only one with the answers.


Your educated Lion but sometimes your education,i feel,blinds you man.Or maybe not YOUR education but more your perception of everybody else who doesnt subscribe to your school of thought as being LESS EDUCATED? We can agree to disagree and respect each others beliefs and values. Thats a good way to leave this thread.I'd like to say iv enjoyed the debate but not really cos i dont like putting myself out there in this way.What i believe,accept and pursue is my business only.I respect anyones beliefs even if they conflict with mine and dont feel the need to ridicule them in order to "save them and stop them wasting your life".That IS a touch insulting ,even if its not offensive to me:sad4:

 

Fair comment Res. Again im not the guy with all the answers,but i am the guy with the questions and it takes time to match the answers with the questions.Leaning on scriptures AND intuition is exactly what i aim to do so i dont think that a bad thing.But yeah i'll take that comment about understanding exactly what it is my belief support and is founded upon,fair comment

 

They view religion as a destructive force on society canna and if he read my posts he would see that i dont disagree with that.Thats the difference here,im not championing any religion. This whole thread came about from me asking Lion to back up his claim Jesus wasnt a real person in historical terms or any other terms. Im not advocating religion.I am saying i believe in God which Jugg being anti-theist would dispprove of but i think hes wise enough to see the angle i was TRYING to come at this from

 

In my rush to leave the thread i missed this part. Good point although i can point out Res that he rose by the power of God and from his faith and obedience. Its a pre cursor to Jesus nothing more. He never had a mission statement from God or valuable teaching to impart on the world. Its simply a demonstration of Gods power which in no way contradicts the mesage of Jesus.Id have to read the story as im not familiar with it fully.If you read that a little deeper you'll maybe think theres a little symbolism there in the fact he rose after 3 days.Thats significant i would suggest:2c:


EDIT: Just reading a bit more about this,i find it interesting that the guy who read what the stone said now thinks it calls for a reassessment of all previous scholarships on messianism. Because if that tablet only told a story of Jesus rising from the dead then it wouldnt be classed as ,as significant.This is what i mean when i say when it cmes to Jesus there seems to be a higher standard of evidence required. We have no idea apart from this one reference whether this simon guy rose or why.But now a scholar wants to use this titbit of info to reassert all things about Jesus

 

Kinda funny you say that cos one of the things iv been doing at college recently is debating.The tutor asks us for a worthy debate issue.So we all throw ideas out there.I couldnt think of anything great so i just threw up Syria as it was in the newspaper that day but i also hold a view on Syria that we should have intervened before now.I made the mistake of showing my hand and she decided to run with my debate topic but she devillishly decided to put me in the camp arguing AGAINST UK forces intervention Its good though cos you learn to fight the corner your in even if you dont have all the fact or even believe the thing your advocating.I managed to put my own twist on it though and argued for no fly zones instead of boots on the ground intervention.But jeez did i find it tough advocating for UN sanctions and all that bullshit when i think the UN is the most useless organisation ever when it comes to settling conflicts. Another thing is im usually quite passive,i let people believe what they wanna believe but we been doing role play where you have to either play an Assertive,Aggressive,passive aggressive or pasive person which i actually enjoyed.Maybe im bringing my college work home with me